rbr

It was Phil the fool who organised it , but hes made a right arse of himself again , posting that Thatcher was dead before someone finally set then straight 4 pages later on septic minded

No ,just that a young player who has hardly featured and been injury prone and who if the truth be known could walk down Argyle st almost without notice , yet there are threads on various sites all dedicated to whether he's offski or not , its not Messi thats leaving , thats all I'm saying

A few years ago this wouldn't have even been worthy of a thread , just shows how far we have fallen , no offence to Zappa for posting it , but just a general observation

Sorry to be a party pooper for some , but the recent fad is to play left footer's on the right and vice versa the thought process being that they are stronger when cutting inside , its just another fad , like the player in the hole , or the diamond formation etc etc , however whats not a fad is playing LB's at Cm or left back in front of left back , i mean who would be mad enough to do that

I take your point , however they tend to be from smaller clubs with a few superstars yet are still technically adept and aware , something that we are definetly not good at , and as far as i am concerned thats down to training and tactics

Why would it be , its there to protect Murray and keep him in control , its not for our benefit , also this blind belief that everything is going to be ok somehow is getting us nowhere , Whyte hasn't even taken his threat of Carter Ruck and the BBC any further .

just where abouts are the aussie national team compared to scotland , and in a competitive game who would you fancy more m i'd take them any day mate

something we havent been able to do for years mate

The HMRC dealings are a matter of public record now , the Herald and evening times newspapers have seen the signed agreement between Murray/MIH and Whyte which states that only MIH/Andrew Thornhill has the power to negotiate with HMRC , any representation that we make or are asked for by HMRC have to be cleared first by Mr Thornhill . Craig Whyte is very fast going up a dead end and is approaching the end very very quickly , that the bastard Murray still appears to be manipulating the timeline's is very very worrying , as is the unaudited accounts and the very real possibility of no european football for 3 years , some thing that would be nigh on fatal for us .

Whyte cannot talk to HMRC it was one of the stipulations of the takeover that Thornhill qc who is being paid for by the MIH group is the only one dealing with HMRC , Murray is still controlling the whole ball game , we are fast running out of cash and things are looking very very bleak

None of this had happened when we were pumped by Malmo or Maribor , yes the timing of this is probably bad however you cant hide basic facts such as weve only been beaten twice domestically , we have been rotten in 85% of the games we have played this year , the only shining light was Naisy , and Ally seems totally unable to change things or get the players motivated . I have posted plenty on here in the past that has been proved 100% correct , but some of the things that I'm hearing I cant even contemplate never mind put my name to repeating , there are so many factions within our once great club that the impression of failure would be gladly greeted by some .

For the first time in my life , even after the Grieg years I am starting to truly despair at the state of our club from top to bottom , this is no knee jerk reaction to last Saturday , rather a slightly longer term view from June/July .From the disasterous sequence of transfer debacles to the abysmal diplays in Europe , to the dire displays game after game since then I am getting tothe point of no return.Football is no longer enjoyable . From Craig Whyte's takeover which was meant to herald a new beginning all we have seen is bailiffs at Ibrox , and a near weekly appearance at the courts defending some unpaid bill or other , now Mr Whyte may be some sort of financial genius and I give him credit for at least taking us on , but we appear to be heading in one direction only and to be brutally honest I dont see how we will recover in the short term , how I wish ill of the bastard Murray and all his seed . Back on the park we are witnessing the biggest capitulation ever in Scottish football history , that Rangers cannot recover from the loss of one player (Naismith) is beyond me , we have international players who are not getting a sniff of their chosen positions whilst others are getting games whilst totally out of form and position . Last Sat , the manager took of a winger after McCulloch's red card , only to replace a striker with another winger later on , thenBartlay is put on as a striker , baffling yet the biggest problem is an age old one from Rangers , we continually see other inferior teams play us off the park , thats twice this season St Mirren have given us an absolute doing , passing wise , that Inverness can come to Ibrox and do like wise is frightening. My final part of this rant is that the " we need Rangers men " at the helm has to change and change rapidly , pandering to a vocal minority is not the way forward , I want the best we can get , you only need look at the football Brendan Rogers has Swansea playing , and he's on a budget way below us , and before anyone jumps in and gives it the EPL money arguement , he hasd them playiong like that last year and his previous club Watford as well . We need to change and we need to change rapidly before the fat lady burst into her final song , or I truly fear the worst .

Bring back the groan , you canny beat a good groan now and again

We kept hearing from nearly all the old regime that they didnt agree with this or they didnt want to do that , can not one single person find the balls to come out ans say it like it was , we are facing a situation of possible nightmare proportions yet we are no nearer any answers , in fact the actions that Whyte seems to be takingo ie only paying bills when forced by legal action is really really concerning , the situation regarding our euro license is starting to get very very murky with a possible appeal muted against the penalty for the smaller tax case . I am starting to get very worried by the lack of a plan or the appearance of any plan

The cash on hand was £8.8m. Given this presumably included a large chunk of season ticket money then i appears that we do need an overdraft, as it seems that we have monthly outgoings of £6.5m with minimal income. sorry Bluedell I must have missed this , but how is this figure so high , we dont have outgoings of £78 million per year surely

Mortimer certainly has Whytes ear etc and is be a very useful high rolling supporter , make no bones about it , however when it comes to interviewing someone for a " head of Dept" role it must be the Rangers owner or at least Ali Russell who conducts the interview , remember this interview was going to be 2 way Shorthouse would certainly have been asking awkward questions of a man he would need to protect and support.

As long as its a better performance than against the last team with Saint in their name

Funny that Robert Shorthouse's name has cropped up in that article , he was approached by Rangers /Craig Whyte 2 weeks ago to oversee the clubs pr ,after agreeing the meeting venue at 29 , Mortimers establishment , it transpired after half an hour that it was Mortimer who was conducting the interview , Shorthouse duly made his anger known and duly left . It seems a very strange way to conduct an interview for such an important role , especially now in these conditions , why Mortimer was deemed capable of interviewing anyone for a role at Ibrox is beyond me.

http://lockerz.com/s/153453029 looks like a great turnout so far

Following a clamour of calls for the thread to be put back on , MDC one of their mods has modified the thread , no mention of where it came from other than the "vb" when asking questions

posted this on ££ , it lasted 11 minutes , if that doesnt sum up Dingwall then nothing will

Last night, Vanguard Bears were granted a meeting with Rangers Chairman Craig Whyte.3 Delegates from the site attended the meeting, which was brokered by one of our influential contributors. The meeting was unprecedented, and a first for any Rangers supportersâ?? website. Happening the same week as our planned Demo at the BBC, and at a very busy time for the club, and Mr Whyte in particular, we are very grateful to Mr Whyte for actually taking time out of his busy Schedule to discuss topics of interest to Rangers fans across the globe, with Rangers Supporters Liaison Mgr Jim Hannah present. The meeting lasted 90 minutes and covered a variety of topical points, which we found productive. Jim Hannah advised us that this meeting would be a one-off meeting out with normal Assembly procedures, due to the imminent BBC protest. With Vanguard not being represented through this forum, Craig Whyte felt it appropriate in this instance in order to listen to us. Minutes as follows: Agenda for Meeting with Craig Whyte on Tuesday 1st November 2011 at 5pm. Vanguard Bears â?? who we are, what we do, and why we exist. Mr. Whyte and Rangers F.C. â?? The Future The Media The Support 1. Vanguard Bears â?? Who, What and Why: We started the meeting with a spirit of open dialogue, explaining our reasons for existence. During the last decade in particular, the club we love has been the focus of several attacks by the media No dedicated group to co-ordinate a fight back against detractors of the club Frustration at other groupsâ?? historical hesitance to fight back in a controlled and driven manner through to completion Years of experience and knowledge of the methodology behind the attacks on the Club Dedication to defending the traditions of the club Dedication to enhancing the legacy of the club No conflict of interests whatsoever; no profits, no bonuses, or contracts to be won, and no desire for power Explained that some of our senior members were founder members of the Rangers Supporters Trust Highlighted our work, successes and achievements William McBeath grave Continued highlighting of agenda of certain bloggers and journalists, who are now being ridiculed by mainstream media, and their peers Explained our members activity in marginalising certain bloggers from radio stations Previous two demos and petition granted face to face meeting with senior BBC Management in Glasgow by BBC Director General in 2009 BBC Staff responsible for two disgusting incidents regarding the titling and properties of photographs on the BBC Website disciplined Explained our reasons for leaving fans joint working group Felt that only one response to our request to demonstrate a symptom of malaise and inaction The one response, for a â??strongly worded letterâ?, woefully inadequate, naïve and two years behind us Aware of communications between certain group members excluding Vanguard Indicated our delight at common support and public backing from our friends at Gersnet, Rangers Media, Blue Order, Union Bears and several Rangers Supporters Clubs Informed that previous BBC Demos have gone without incident and that attendeesâ?? behaviour was commended by Strathclyde Police Explained that we have issued strict guidelines for attendees this Saturdayâ??s Demo Advised that photographs of demonstrators were taken of protesters at previous demo from inside BBC Building and posted on Celtic fan websites Stated our desire for Mr Whyte to address imbalances in the media, and that VB in particular supported that stance whole heartedly. Stated that we believed the previous management team had sufficient information to make informed choices, but had little appetite to do so. Durring this session, Mr Whyte was supportive, open and candid about the scale of the agenda against the club, and appreciated it is widespread and not an isolated issue at one broadcaster. He explained that the club has to evaluate the importance and reach of media outlets, the severity of the slur, the legal implications, and accept â??digsâ? from journalists or bloggers if these â??digsâ? are not libellous. We both agreed that constructive criticism was completely acceptable. My Whyte explained that he is still being advised by Carter Ruck with regards to allegations made on the BBC Programme â??Rangers â?? The Inside Storyâ?, its researchers and contributors. Those who have repeated said allegations may also be pursued. We explained that while VB was set up to act primarily as a conduit for supporters to right wrongs, and address agendas against the club, above all else we are Rangers supporters who care deeply for the club. Therefore, it would have been foolish not to ask questions on the future of the club: 2. Mr. Whyte and Rangers F.C. â?? The Future Some direct questions were put to Mr Whyte VB â?? Reports of Rangers going in to Administration continue to dominate the media in Scotland, including a rumour from a credible source to VB that the club will voluntarily enter Administration on Monday 7th November. Is there any truth in this rumour? CW â?? Not at all. Our phones were red hot last Friday (28th October) with the same rumour, which led to us having to contact media organisations to inform them it was business as usual for us VB â?? Do you have a value in mind that you could settle at with HMRC that could allow the club to pay off any amount due, should Rangers lose the â??mainâ? case against the organisation, and avoid the scenario of Administration or Insolvency? CW â?? Yes, although that value is sensitive VB â?? Would that value be paid directly without offsetting against future season ticket revenue? CW â?? Yes VB â?? Are you confident of winning the case? CW â?? Yes VB â?? Do you genuinely see Administration as an option, or is it part of a game with HMRC? CW â?? Sadly, it is an option, and not a game in the slightest, although we see it (Administration) as worst case scenario. A Plan â??Dâ? if you will. Administration is not, and never has been a Pre determined Strategy to deal with any possible loss of the â??mainâ? tax case. Rangers are talking to HMRC on a daily basis VB â?? What is the legal/contractual position of â??Murray Parkâ?? Can is be put to the fans to rename, perhaps as a symbol of a new era? CW â?? There is no obligation to keep the name of â??Murray Parkâ?. VB- We've have no representation on either the SFA professional board or the SPL board since Martin Bain has left? With Peter Lawwell, Eric Riley & Stephen Thompson among those now in senior positions there seems little influence for Rangers within the management circles of Scottish Football CW â?? The SPL is democratic, and Ali Russell will take over from Eric Riley at the SPL next year. The SFA has obviously been through some restructuring which we will monitor throughout the coming months. VB â?? The previous management at Rangers attempted a Share issue, which was undersubscribed, largely due to a lack of trust between the support and the custodian. Is this an avenue that you have considered? CW â?? Itâ??s not something we have considered to any great degree. Do you think the support would invest? VB â?? If given confidence that the money would be used wisely, yes We then moved on to more general Media issues 3. The Media VB - We have already covered the BBC Demo, and the Documentary, and note your action against The Record and Herald during this season has resulted in quick apologies, what is your position on Graham Spiers CW â?? I decided when I took over the club, that while I would address media imbalance, I would start with a clean slate, and expect the same in return. After seeing Mr Spiersâ?? involvement in the BBC Documentary, we were considering whether to withdraw all press privileges, but decided against it, as we were of the view that his influence and readership is not significant enough to trouble us. That said, when we took that decision we only considered â??The Timesâ??â? reach in Scotland, not their reach in England and beyond. [Following discussion with JH] It is too late to reverse that decision. If Mr Spiers appears on our radar again for the wrong reasons, we will take a more holistic view. In football terms heâ??s on a retrospective yellow card VB â?? Are you aware of any journalists that he considers as having a sympathetic ear to the club? CW â?? To a certain degree yes, but some are constrained, and outnumbered within their outlets to put the required balance back in to reporting. Some also have their work edited. (CW named two journalists, who VB were non committal on our view of them) 4. The Support VB - One of the reasons our plans for a BBC Demo were delayed, were the reports coming in from fellow fans about their treatment at the hands of Stewards at Ibrox, where we felt that our fellow supporters were being unfairly targeted by G4S at Ibrox, and treated like cattle on their travels. We temporarily put our energy in to offering advice and support to those affected. The SNP and â??Anti Sectarian Billâ? â?? How can the club help the support, when our behaviour in recent years with regards to â??Sectarianismâ? has been exemplary? CW â?? Will will continue to lobby strongly, and ask that our supporters not be singled out without good reason. G4S have been spoken to since the incidents you refer to, but are still constrained by a lack of clarity from the authorities VB â?? It is our understanding that there is a specific letter from UEFA with respect to â??The Billy Boysâ?, but that it has never been distributed. [CW looks to JH] JH â?? Yes, there is a letter specifically outlining â??The Billy Boysâ?, and it was shown to members of the RST, Assembly and Supporters Association. It does exist and is not a myth. VB â?? We are concerned at the double standards on the term â??Fenianâ?, and how the goalposts have moved on a word historically an exclusive term referring to â??Irish Republicansâ? of all religions, to have a dual meaning interpreted by certain factions as they see fir. CW/JH â?? Case law and legal advice tells us that those of influence in Justice deem that the term can be deemed Sectarian in certain circumstances, but that there is a lack of clarity over what these circumstances are. The time to argue this was before case law. That time has passed. VB â?? We are also concerned over the double standard in usage of the sectarian word â??Hunâ?, which also has case law to support it being sectarian, but there is a distinct lack of action on those using the term CW â?? We were unaware of this case law and will look in to it VB â?? In recent years it has been noticeable that there is a significant political presence at Celtic Park both within the boardroom, and in stands, why does it not appear to be the same at Ibrox? Are we looking at engaging with Political figures CW â?? Believe it or not, there are a handful of MPs and political figures not shy to show their allegiance. They may not be household names, and the cameras as Ibrox generally being on the same side of the pitch as the main stand perhaps doesnâ??t show them regularly. In any event, I donâ??t think they are here to be on telly. VB â?? Regards our BBC Demo, do you back it? CW â?? I can fully understand the frustrations that have driven you to organise it As we were about to wrap up proceedings we asked one final question. VB â?? We understand that there was an incident in the Tunnel at Ibrox before you bought the club, where an opposition manager is rumoured to have racially abused Vladimir Weiss and El Hadj Diouf. Did this happen, and if so, why werenâ??t the press told? Do the club have evidence? CW â?? I wasnâ??t here, so canâ??t comment. We donâ??t want anyone to lose their job do we? JH â?? No Comment VB â?? Thanks for your time Mr Whyte CW/JH â?? Our pleasure JH signed off with a reminder that VB should consider becoming part of the Assembly. VB Representatives stated that we would consult our members. Admin Vanguardbears.co.uk

Yes but it seems to be very very indepth crap , just getting twitchy about this whole situation

After refusing to go onto this site , in a moment of weakness I ventured onto it , now either we are all totally ignorant arseholes or else they are financial geniuses who seem to know every single thing about our finances m for example seemingly yesterday we were hours away from an insolvency hearing/ papers being served on us . The depth of research/debate on that site is actually quite unnatural , has any of our financial tyopes had a look and what is their impartial opinion

Hes an absolute cock socket of a man , he continually backtracks on everything he has ever done , for god's sake he was on several tv shows stating his participation in getting UEFA involved and how they were using his column , now its a different story , it wasn't me it was a big boy that wrote it