Tannochsidebear

Aberdeen v Hearts is clearly the pick of the round, so my guess is that either Morton/Dumbarton v Timmy or Hamilton v Rangers will be the live game. I hope Sky have the balls to pick the best game over the best audience figures for once, and let our game be played at 3pm on the Saturday for once.

Sorry for the delay in getting this up guys, been really busy at work today, and the release was only issued about an hour ago. I believe we have to be a bit grown up about this. The easiest thing would have been for the club to say we are not taking tickets at all, but they have shown faith in us, and we have to ensure we repay that faith. On this occassion the club have asked for our assistance in not taking our flags inside the stadium, as there is a lack of space for them to be displayed, and in return the club will continue to try to arrange, wherever possible, for an area to be set aside for our flags, like what happened in Stuttgart earlier this season. That was arranged by the club for the local stewards to take our flags and display them behind the goal. We have assurances that the club will continue to do this for every future trip. Speaking to several of the RSC reps that were in attendance, they could all see that was a small sacrifice to make to try to ensure that things go smoothly. I personally dont buy the scenario made by some that the Spanish dont want our flags because of Gibralter, or any display of Britishness, as the Spanish have not asked that we dont bring our flags, it is a sort of personal repsonsibility thing we are trying to promote. It is also worth noting that at the meeting it was asked if we could look into having another meeting, perhaps in the spring, to look towards next season, and sort of a fans forum to try to put forward some suggestions towards improving European travel for supporters, be that through the existing Travel Club, RSC's, or independant travellers. We will probably see about trying to do this, if there is a demand for it from supporters, as it appears the club are ready to listen to the fans in this post-Murray era. Time will tell I suppose, and we should see how the Seville match goes before looking too far ahead.

A delegation of fans that are travelling to Seville met in the Ibrox Suite on Sunday 29 November 2009 to discuss arrangements for the trip. Kenny Scott, Rangers FC Head of Security, and Jim Hannah, Rangers FC Supporters Liaison Manager, were present. Attendees were informed of the outcome of meetings with the Spanish authorities regarding arrangements for the match on 9 December 2009. The Police and other authorities in Seville do not anticipate any problems with our visit. Fans were advised about drop-off and pick-up points for coaches and procedures for security checkpoints outside the turnstiles. In sharp contrast to Bucharest, there will be seven entry turnstiles for Rangers fans to enable good access. Kenny Scott stated that the stadium access points, catering outlets and toilet facilities are all of a good standard. Rangers FC will be advising details of the ticket pick-up arrangements shortly. Rangers FC will take 10 stewards (4 can speak Spanish) and they will be supported by six liaison officers from Strathclyde Police. After the difficulties in Bucharest, some stewards will be equipped with head cameras to ensure that all the agreed arrangements in the vicinity of the stadium are adhered to by the Spanish authorities. One key point to note is that there is no space in the Rangers section to accommodate flags and banners neither is there trackside space to lay them out. The representatives of several Rangers Supporters Clubs (RSC's) in attendance agreed that, on this occasion, it would be sensible not to take their flags to the stadium, and that we would ask our fellow RSC's to follow suit. Plans are in place to provide all fans with a leaflet highlighting our links with Sevilla FC - legendary manager Jock Wallace had a spell with them and Ted McMinn played there. Ted will be travelling over for the match as a Rangers FC ambassador. Other initiatives are being explored to help make the trip an enjoyable experience for all fans and to ensure that the reputation of Rangers fans is of the highest order.

Just a wee bump as a reminder of this meeting tomorrow afternoon at 1.30pm.

Ibrox Suite, Sunday 29th November, 1.30pm As most will know, there was a meeting held at Murray Park last Monday before the club issued their decision that they were going to take a full allocation of Seville tickets. That meeting consisted of representatives of the Rangers Assembly, Flight Options, Nithsdale and Kinning Park RSC's together with Martin Bain, Kenny Scott and other officals from the club. The meeting was to discuss ways to allow our true fans to travel to the game, and have an official ticket for the Rangers area of the ground, what security measures are in place for us, where buses will be dropping off before the game etc, and obviously how we can try to ensure that there is no trouble from within our support, as it is clear UEFA will take a very firm stance with us should be have to go before them again. As a follow-up to that meeting, there is another open meeting to all supporters who are intending travelling to Seville, and also for anyone organising transport in Spain to the stadium from holiday resorts etc. This meeting is essentially to discuss what we can do as individual supporters to ensure we get fair treatment, to pass on all the information we have regarding what will happen when we get there, ticket distribution, stewarding, policing, and transport. The meeting is in the Ibrox Suite, located between the Copland and Govan stands at Ibrox at 1.30 this coming Sunday, the 29th November, and will be chaired by Billy Montgomery. This is not an official meeting arranged by the club, but has the backing of the club as they try to ensure we have the best information possible, and to allow us to ensure we can look out for each other, and make the trip a memorable one. There are some special links between the two clubs, with our legendary manager Jock Wallace also having been manager of Seville, and not forgetting the tin man himself, Ted McMinn, who played there for a spell also. I look forward to seeing as many of you at Ibrox on Sunday as possible.

Rangers 2 Stuttgart 1 Quite confident we can win tonight, and Seville will win in Romania, to set ourselves up for a final matchday which can see us finish either 2nd 3rd or 4th in the group. And I can see that scenario still being the case going into squeaky-bum time in Spain. Would love to qualify with 6 points!!

As a lot of you know, I am secretary of the Nithsdale RSC. We are a member club of the Rangers Supporters Association, and through this membership we applied for tickets for the match at Dundee United, giving our named list of 66 members requesting tickets which then went directly to Dundee United, and we got back 66 tickets with our members names on it. Since Dundee United announced they were going to charge supporters again to see the replayed match, our chairman Monty, took them to task on this, and we sent an email to them asking, as we were entitled to do so within 14 days of the announcement of the new date of the match, for a refund of our original tickets. He also got onto Glasgow Trading Standards, and we have received great assistance from them, and they believe we have a case. Trading Standards have contacted the SPL, who have washed their hands of it as ticketing is down to individual clubs, but Trading Standards are suggesting they do something collectively for future reference as the cuurent position is challengable. We are more than willing to take this all the way, with a civil action against Dundee United if necessary, and we have taken the decision today to let our fellow bears know of this position, in the hope that other bears, who retain proof of their purchase of a ticket for the original match, will also make Dundee United aware of their intentions to take them to court if they continue with their current policy. The information we got from Trading Standards is that there is precedent with two cases involving the fans against Man United and Spurs. The Spurs one is most interesting to us, as it was about ticketing policy in light of postponement or abandonment. They had to back down, and have since changed their terms and conditions. Trading Standards in Glasgow and Dundee have both contacted the OFT (Office of Fair Trading), who are the UK wide ruling body on such matters and are really the level above local trading standards offices, and have had positive discussions with them on this also. It looks as if, if we can pressure United collectively through either a group action, or many hundreds of individual actions, we may have enough power to win this. The correct email address for Dundee United is communications@dundeeunitedfc.co.uk. Please keep your emails polite and to the point. For a hint, something like this would be suitable. "Dear Sir, I am contacting you to ask for a full refund of my ticket, purchased from you via Rangers FC, in accordance to your ticketing terms and conditions issued by you for this and every match. My contact details are as follows; Mr X 1 Main St Anytown G1 2BC I look forward to hearing from you in the near future. Regards Mr X" Good luck to anyone sending this in, and I will keep you updated on how we get on.

I hear that big Colin Stein has a book launch this sunday night at the Alea Casino in Glasgow in the form of a �£50 sportsmans dinner. Speakers are Joe Cammy, John Geaghan and Bill Copland. Dont know if I have heard Joe before, but John and Bill are fantastic after dinner speakers. I hear there are still tickets left, as I got a text tonight asking if I wanted to go.

I understand all Rangers supporters who qualify for tickets for the new game, either by CCCS or RSC, will be asked if they want them, not told to take them, and wont be billed until they confirm they want them. It could be we send thousands of tickets back if any boycott is even partially successful.

With the old saying of a week being a long time in politics in mind, any questions raised today have a good chance of being completely overtaken by events come December 7, and could be irrelevant by them. The only thing I think we can be trying to get organised about, is any questions regarding the accounts, which by rights should be asked during the first part of the meeting when they are put forward for approval. The likes of Boss etc, should be getting the accounts out (again) and look for anything in there that requires further clarification. I haven't had a look at the 2009 accounts yet, so I'm not thinking of anything specific, but I do remember in the early years of the RST, we went mob-handed to the AGM with all our financial questions aimed at Murray, and waited until the Q&A to ask them, only to be told we were too late as the time for Accounts questions was earlier in the meeting. Also, these questions should be put in writing to the club in advance, and given fair warning that they will be asked during the AGM. Perhaps someone who understands the smallprint of constitutions and AGM's can look into this to see if this is viable. There must be loads of questions regarding JJB, Assets, Outsourcing, that the accounts are not clear about, or that the board should be taken to task about, even from the POV of getting it out there into the open and have the board deny it, or blame Murray for it, as he wont be there. Questions for the Q&A regarding the bank's influence, MIH etc, are probably left until nearer the time so as to start from a more up to date position.

Answered elsewhere, need to get some sleep and really busy tomorrow at work, so i'm not going to repeat it here, other than to say I didnt actually ask you for questions, I asked you for your opinions and thoughts on some questions I posed. I'm sure when I get the chance to check back on, I can read your answers.

I agree with that and I, like everyone else, is keen to hear what the plan is going to eventually look like. This is all about getting the debate going, that is all. Well it is from me anyway. I am taking the risk that if, when the scheme is revealed, I dont agree with it, then I look a bit silly, but I can handle that.

I see what you mean now mate, and that has some merit. I dont see it happening though!!

I dont know to be fair, but the conference definately spoke of unity several times and perhaps I have taken too much into those statements. I would think you had better ask these of UCB for clarification.

Sadly, this train of thought is deeply depressing. Again you go back to the BBC protest. I can also name plenty of wasted chances the RST has passed up when it should have supported initiatives from other fans and groups. But none of that matters now, or at least it shouldn't. I understand your views of SS and MD and I know for a fact it is shared by many, and that their form is not as impressive as their words were yesterday. In some ways I share your concerns, and in some ways I agree that a clean sweep would lead to a better chance of success. If it was me, I would gladly step aside for the good of the scheme. but then I'm not the one who has to do that, and to be honest now is not the time for more political positioning and infighting. We are where we are, and it is important to the future of the club that we unify as never before. Can we set aside old grudges and policy differences? Or are they so discredited in your view that there is absolutely no way back, that they would never get your support for this scheme, and nothing they can say or do in the short term would be good enough, short of resignations?

Zappa, forgive me for interjecting as your comments are really directed to UCB, but all the fans groups are united on this. To my knowledge there are only 3 fans groups that are organised and exist both online and offline. The RST, Assembly and Association. All 3 are party to these discussions and are united in trying to launch this scheme. So say you and I start the "Rangers Supporters Solution" tomorrow. Who do we attract as members? How do we raise funds for our PR campaign? Do we start our own forums and website? How do we get ordinary bears to know who we are and what we are about. What gives us the right to say to bears, forget the RST and the Assmebly, we are the only show in town now? Our problem is we have, for too long, had no fans groups representing us at all. Then along came the RST and the Assembly at the one time, and the Murray orchestrated "divide and conquer" campaign only really worked by splitting the fans against each other, and therefore not directing their energies for the betterment of the club and the fans. Now we finally have a situation where the 3 organisations get on pretty well, have a unified aim, are united together on this project, and instead of being happy that we finally have a big enough group to represent us, we want to start another because of the errors of the past. For 2 weeks now the RST has been screaming for anyone with any ideas or plans to come forward and work together. They have actively tried to get investors involved. I really and truly understand why some bears have a complete and total mistrust of the RST, and why they would be cynical of any claim of changed ways. But is it really too much to ask to give the united body a chance to work this through with our support? There is no other vehicle going to come along. There may or may not be a white knight come along and buy us completely. Can we just sit and hope it all works out. Say you back the scheme and it doesn't materialise and the RST fall back to their old ways and are divisive and insular. You get your money back, and the RST is finished, for good. I say to those who dont like the RST it is a win win situation. Either they really have now focused on what is important, have put the past behind them and have listened to the criticism, in which case they are worthy of our support, or they are the same old same old, and are shown up as such, and probably disappear never to be heard from again, or at the very least are stripped of all credibility and no doubt membership. I say again, can we afford to sit back and ride this out and do nothing?

The story was found during his research if I remember correctly, and was from a couple of years before, but I agree playing the papers off against each other is an underused tool at our disposal, but for it to work, we need friendly editors on our side, and i'm not sure any editors of Scottish papers are on our side, or even remotely sympathetic.

Agreed, and hopefully it wont take weeks to hear what the master plan is, because clearly time is of the essence, and all I can do is give the benefit of the doubt and some positivity to their encouraging words. Like others, there has to be a degree of cynacism at just how quickly a seemingly slow-moving organisation has seemingly transformed itself into a progressive, fast-moving, unified group, and we have to hope that the gravity of the situation has cleared the minds.

The RST board certainly acknowledge the apathy and their image problem, and of course they cannot really do much else but give assurances of their intentions, and point to the united message coming from them, the Assembly and Association in recent weeks. I think it really comes down to wether guys like yourself, a former RST board member, can convince yourself to put the past behind you, get behind people you dont trust, and back a scheme to save our club for the longer term good. We can all hide behind past clashes and mistrusts, dislikes of certain individuals etc, but the cold hard fact is that our club needs saved, the 3 orgainsations of already up and running fans groups have combined their efforts behind one vision, no white knight is charging to the rescue, so what else do we have?

Haven't a clue what you mean by that Boss, but a little disappointing contribution to the debate from someone who must have plenty to say about it, and whose analysis of the accounts is widely respected and we would be interested to hear your take on things. Apart from wanting some market research done, which we dont have time for, why dont you give us your view on fan ownership as a possibility, or your take on wether you think the RST's appeal for unity from all fans has a hope of working, or what your blueprint of a fans membership scheme would look like.

The ammunition is there against any club's fans, it is only us that continually get it blown all over the press. Every club of any decent size has a following from all walks of life, with lawyers, doctors, academics mingled with office workers, building site workers, shop assistants mingled with unemployed, criminals, and neds. In our fanbase, we are not unique as a club to have some fans who want to cause trouble, both at the games, and when no football is on at all. The point is there is a clearly defined media bias against Rangers supporters, driven by our enemies, and not defended by us or our club, so that we even get complete non-stories like eggs benedict and pepperami, the lotto winning thug always called "Rangers fan" and the continual drip-drip effect of negative press. The press have as much access to stories that paint other clubs fans in a similarly bad light, but choose not to do so, or edit it in such a way to take out the sectarian element of timmy crimes. That they choose not to portray other clubs in the same light is the real question.

This is exactly the response I predicted from not just you, but a lot of Rangers supporters who have become disillusioned with the goings on at the RST, and I perfectly understand it, and probably agree with a lot of it. At the break yesterday, I had this very discussion with 2 RST board members, and told them they had no chance of unity within the Rangers support until they can prove absolutely 100% that they are being open, honest, and totally inclusive, and whatever has happened in the past remains there, and we look to move forward together. The impression I got from them, and also MD and SS during the meeting, is exactly that. Anything that has happened before cannot be reversed, but can be put aside. The olive branch is most certainly out from the RST to appeal to all bears to get together and move forward collectively. This is 100% not about who is running the RST in 2009, but about the survival of the club. It is my impression that, at long last, they have realised that forever looking backward, playing the blame game, and being reactionary, is not a policy that wins many friends. But being positive, forward thinking, and working with others, is the only way to go. What they are asking for, is for you to put aside your personal issues with them, and back the idea of the fans coming together with the cash to save our club. The time to watch with interest is gone, it is time to put your hand in your pocket and save your club. If you decide not to do your bit due to your personal issues with those who are trying to make a difference with this, that is entirely your right and decision to make. There is no time to wait around for a change of leadership in the RST, or to see if they have truly changed their outlook above the passionate words, I suppose it comes down to wether you can give them the benefit of the doubt from within yourself, wether you can rise above it yourself and commit to the future of the club itself over the individuals who previously have gone in entirely a different tangent to where you would like them to. Quite simply there is no other group doing this, as all the groups are together on this, and if you decide to sit around waiting for the white knight to come along, you may be even more disappointed than if you back this, and find out later that it didnt work to your satisfaction. It must be worth the gamble, given the situation the club is in?

The fact that this is the generally held belief of non-OF fans is as a direct result of the drip-drip effect of countless negative stories against us in the press over the last couple of decades. There are too many examples to mention specifically, but one that was pointed out to me at the last Gerspride conference by Professor Steve Bruce, who was written books on sectarianism, was the way a certain story was run by two different papers. The local paper ran the story of s few neds with celtic tops causing damage and setting fire to a CoS church. Police were appealing for witnesses etc, and set out descriptions of the neds, complete with celtic tops in the descriptions. The national paper (the record i think) ran the same story, but dropped all mentions of the neds being celtic fans in celtic tops, even dropping this from the descriptions in the police appeal. This is a clear indication of the press "cleaning up" a negative celtic story. In the same paper it ran a story of a rangers fan in trouble for something else, and they managed to find a picture of said fan in his colours, and over-emphasised the story in far greater detail than the much worse church fire. The Prof showed many mroe examples of this, and it was clear that this drip-drip effect will get into the heads of neutral readers and ensure they come up with the pre-determined notion that Rangers/Prods are the bad guys and that Celtic/Tims are the good guys. This is why the club's policy of no comment on any anti-Rangers stories, and the fact we do not even have quiet stern words with regular offending journos and their editors, has resulted in open season on us, and will take years and years of reversal of policy to eradicate this bias.

The only thing I can take out of that disgusting piece of shit, typical of English's rantings that would be more in place on messageboards than broadsheets, is the cold hard fact that UEFA have determined that the attack on Dida was far worse than the 3 minute scuffle in Bucharest, in financial terms. A cold hard fact I will be reminding Timmy of in future.

Getting back to the OP, I totally agree and have been saying for years also that this myth and dream of playing in any other league but our own Scottish version is complete and utter tosh, and should never be seen as a viable alternative to us. We are a Scottish club, and the most successful one at that, and we are rightly proud of this, and our history backs this up all the way back to the Gallant Pioneers. Fashions come and go, and right now the SKY money has turned the English league into something no other league in world football can compete with. So why should we always try to compare our lot with that of a country 10 times bigger than us, just because they are our nearest neighbours? It is completely ridiculous. We can continue to strive to be the best we can be, and over the last decade at least even this most basic of aims has been downgraded due to the total mismanagement of the club at all levels, but particularly the owner. We have been on a downward spiral of negativity, driven by our owners neglect, bad financial decisions, poor media work, poor performances on the park as well, and the acceleration to the abyss has only been tempered by occassional highlights, with 3 last day titles and one great European run, which only came about because we failed to get through our CL group after being in an almost uncatchable position at the halfway stage. I have no doubt that if we get our house in order, on and especially off the field, get a togetherness and a family spirit back to the club, stop pandering to our enemies, we will become the force we all want to be. Yes, tv money means we cannot compete with the top English clubs, but neither can anyone else, so take them out of the equation and we can still have qualified success on the European stage, as our fanbase can generate other revenue streams can allow us to compete with most countries best teams. It is only the negative way Murray has run us down that has us all thinking we cannot compete with anyone, as that is what we have been fed for the last decade.