Tannochsidebear

I think its only natural that those clubs who believe they have a chance of winning the SFL1 this coming season would not want to be competing for the one automatic promotion place with Rangers. The proper answer, if this fudge of "letting" us into Div 1 to save the SPL's SKY money is to be the preferred route, would be to allow 2 up 2 down between the leagues, then the rest of the SFL1 clubs have a better chance than they had before of getting into the SPL, plus the exposure of being in the same league as Rangers for at least 1 season. I could see most SFL1 clubs being ok with that, "sporting integrity" aside of course.

I should add that we will know in the next few days if TBK are seriously giving up or if they are regrouping. Just wait for the usual journos to start giving it anti-Green unsourced stories in the papers and blogs about his consortium collapsing and financial problems etc. If you see these over the next few days we know they are still at it, if it all goes away now then hopefully we will be able to move on and push Green to ensure he sticks to his plans, consults with the fans he can work with (that rules out the RST for now) and starts to put the club on the right footing.

This is quite simple. The Blue nae-cash Knights (mark 2), using Walter as a front, tried to sneak in the back door post-liquidation and grab the club from Green for washers. Green was however too clever for them with his back-to-back deal in case the CVA didnt get through, and made his compulsory purchase of the assets to form the newco. TBK tried to gazump the deal, but as with everything they have touched these last few months, they made a royal raging James Hunt of it, and now need to go away again. Hopefully for good this time. ANyone still in the dark about the "Walter Smith" consortium, it was the same as the Blue Knights with McKenzie replaced by McColl and with Walter emotionally blackmailed into it as a front as they existing members of the consortium were all bad news from their first failed attempt at buying the club. Walter is raging at the way he has been foolishly conned into fronting this, and I am quite certain is partly the reason why this has came to an abrupt end. We will wait and see if the Blue Knights regroup and try some more dirty tricks or if they now give up and disappear.

The situation is ridiculous. Of course the club, under any ownership model of course, will want fans to renew season tickets as early as possible, and of course by this time of year they usuall have over 33,000 renewals to process and cash in the bank, with more coming in by way of DD over the next few months. However I can think of no proper reason why any "consumer" would buy this product at this time. Like most fans, I can see no reason why I wont renew my season ticket for 2012-13. However I certainly want to know what competition we are in before I do. If we are in the third division, the prices will have to half at least before fans will buy. Most estimates would say Ibrox would be half full at best playing Div 3 football. Therefore a ST is not required, and the club is certainly not going to charge £25 or thereabouts for a home match against Annan or Queens Park. So it could be the case that fans would get no benefit from a season ticket for this coming season, either financially for paying up front, or guaranteeing a seat as it will never be a sell out. If we are in Div 3 it could well be the case that most matches are pay at the gate if crowds are as expected. This has nothing to do with who owns the club, as the fixtures remain the same if it is the blue knights or Green that is in charge.

Absolutely Frankie. The fact they have yet again jumped the gun and given carte blanche support to a group looking to buy the club is absolutely staggeringly incompetant. Surely they had to learn from their many mistakes over this last year or so that you scrutinise first, support later. But it seems that only works with those you dont instantly like, or dont have any history with. Many will have to consider their positions when all this is done.

The RFFF are meeting at 3pm this afternoon, so hopefully they will release a statement soon afterwards.

Not quite the same thing. The reason some were saying about not naming all the parties in the Green consortium was because we thought (wrongly with hindsight) that it may have some bearing on the CVA. Now all that is out of the way, it should be transparancy all the way. From all parties.

I agree the info from the Green ownership (its not a bid anymore) has to be more forthcoming before he can get the fans trust. He wont be getting any of my dosh until I am satisfied, but that goes for all others too, even if they have managed to get a Legend to front it.

No he hasnt. He has named himself and Park, but his article in the paper mentions that there are more. I absolutely agree that Green has to do similar, this is not, and I am not, pro-Green in any way shape or form. (just to clear that up!!)

Does nobody else think that until we see both consortium's business plans, fully financed, then how can we possibly begin to understand which is better for our club to begin its recovery process. The next few seasons are going to be very very difficult with no Euro income and either SFL football or uncompetitive SPL football which is not really all that attractive to potential ST holders. Add in a dreadful economic climate and running our football club for the next 3-5 years is going to be a really really tough gig. I want to see what the plans are. I want to be able to buy into them. Neither the current owner (Green) nor the vulture consortium (McColl) have given me anything to be able to do this. What am I missing here that makes everyone so positive all of a sudden? Please tell me as I could certainly do with something to be positive about when it comes to our club just now.

It is absolutely a thankless task. With the Rangers support so opinionated, it is well nigh impossible to speak for all of us!! All we can do, as I have done with all others who have put themselves up there, is thank them for their time and efforts in trying to push forward a positive Rangers voice on the matters of the day. It always seems to prove to me that our Rangers professional PR department, with all their full time staff and funding, are incapable of getting the Rangers voice across, when it is so easily achieved by the fans spokespersons, be that Graham, Dingwall, Edgar, McMillan, Kerr, Blyth etc. It is certainly another item on the list for whoever is in charge of our great club when the dust settles.

1. With all the talk of only wanting to do whats right for the club, saving the club, etc, why wait until after we get an automatic 3 year euro ban, probably relegation or major points deductions in our domestic league, the stigma of being liquidated, before making your move? 2. Name your entire team of bidders. (Its what every other consortium has ben asked to do) 3. Prove you have the money in place to run the club. (its what every other consortium has been asked to do) 4. What are your plans for the club with our much reduced income over the next few seasons? 5. Are there plans for fans reps to get places on the football board and a genuine say in the running of the club? 6. Will you take us to the SFL or accept a place in the SPL with sanctions that will make us uncompetitive? Thats just for starters. Im just not buying this saviour nonsense, even with Walter's involement. He is a Rangers legend and I am somewhat comforted by his inclusion, but I really dont care about figureheads if they have no power. The answers to the above questions are much more important.

I got a few paragraphs into the first article when I read the following; "Yet during the past week, the ticket office has been fielding calls from fans to cancel their season tickets because of unhappiness with Green, and no fans will sign up now until he sells to Smith's group." This is complete fabrication as the renewals were only issued over the weekend. Are we saying that some fans (nobody I have heard of has even contemplated sending their renewal yet) sent their renewal in, got their confirmation back, and then phoned up to cancel it all in a couple of days. No point reading any further after that.

How many potential buyers is this now the RST have backed as the saviours? Surely to goodness they must get one right eventually! Oh, and "The Green bid is dead in the water". Sorry to break it but the Green bid isnt a bid, he is the owner as far as I can make out.

Where to start with this pile of nonsense? They have been working on this for weeks, but say they are only doing this because they are not confortable that Greens deal is going through. Well Greens bid is through, his money has been paid, and the newco is set up with a new chairman etc. He is not sure about his backers, but refuses to name his own partners. Would it be any surprise to find out that this is really just TBK back again re-branded? I just dont buy that they are doing this for the good of the club and to put the club into good hands. Douglas Park is not good hands. He is using a story that has not materialised (Ally resigns) to back up his point??? And even if we are to trust this bit of it, this only happened this week, they have been planning this for weeks, so it is completely irrelevant to their motives. It stinks of vultures hovering over the carcass, and until they are subjected to the same sort of scrutiny we have rightly been pushing for with Green and the others, they dont get my backing. All they have is Walter fronting it. I am certainly comforted by this, but do not believe this should be taken as everything being all right then.

If you had a pound for everythig Gunslinger got wrong you could buy the club yourself!!

Wait a minute here guys. In fairness to all the goings on over the last few months, where the hell have these guys been, and why have they waited until our club is liquidated, ensuring years in the wilderness both at home and abroad, before coming in and saying "we'll take it from here guys". For one, I dont and will never trust Douglas Park in a Rangers sense. He has had the chance for years to buy our club and has always refused to come up with the cash. His involvement in the blue nae-cash knights was a total catastrophe and his leaking of stories and manipulation of our situation this last few months leaves me with a very very sour taste in my mouth. Ask anyone who works at Weir's pumps in Cathcart about Jim McColl and they will tell you not to trust him with anything. He has done the dirty on them time and time again, and it is very debatable if he has the necessary available cash to fund the club through these coming dark days. I share everyone's delight in the announcement from Walter that he is involved in this, and that is one man we really can trust with our club, but lets be honest it smells a bit like he is getting used as a front for guys with no credibility. I hope he knows what he is letting himself in for. And finally, the timing absolutely stinks. It is a kick in the stones to every one of us Rangers fans who has been on anti-depressants this week since the news broke that HMRC were going to spend millions of taxpayers money to liquidate rather than recover what it could from the cash on offer. I dont share my fellow bears sense of glee here today. Perhaps the wounds are yet still too sore. Perhaps it is the stench of the vultures ready to pounce on the carcass of our club. Perhaps it is the spidey-sense tingling that this is not all it is made out to be. Does this change the fact that our club was allowed to die? No. Does this change the fact that we are going to be out of Europe for at least 3 seasons? No. Does this change the fact that we are either going to be in Division 3 next season or severely handicapped in the SPL? No. Sorry if i dont get all worked up and excited at the mere mention of Walter's name. I assume this new group's credentals and business plan are going to be examined with a fine tooth comb in a similar fashion to all the others? Or do we not give a toss about this now because Walter is involved?

I think you are jumping the gun ever so slightly here. I was at the meeting that day also, and it was clear to me that we had to wait and see what sanctions we were finally up against and who was gunning against us before making any decisions on boycotts. The CVA gets passed/rejected on Thursday. If it gets passed we then know that we will be playing SPL football next season and we can move the conversation on to what the fans want to do regarding boycotts etc at that stage. If the CVA gets rejected, a newco gets put into effect, and while we will more than liekly still be a SPL club, the SPL's new rules dictate that it will be up to the 11 other members to decide on appropriate punishment for a newco. That being the case, it is not sensible to call for a boycott of some clubs at this time before they have been asked to vote on any sanctions against us. While some club chairmen have been all hot air, none have voted against us yet as there has been no vote. I am a bit down the middle with boycotts. I have a self-imposed boycott of DUFC for the cup abandonment fiasco, and a boycott of the piggery due to rip-off ticket prices, but I go to all the other away matches at home and abroad. However the way our enemies have been lining up to kick us needs to be addressed and the best way to hurt the other teams (aart from 3 points every ime of course) is with a boycott of their grounds and the financial hit that will give them. Unfortunately I see the other side of that in that our team needs and deserves our support to carry them to victory. I dont think we can expect them to turn up for every away match to a gaping hole where we would normally be standing and still perform to their best and get the 3 points. If a team could play without fans why do they always thank the fans for their support that helped them to victory. It is a debate that needs to be aired and properly thought out before any action is taken, but that can only happen after we know what we are dealing with, which will hopefully become much clearer after Thursday. I understand that with the ST renewals out now, the box for away tickets is included, but surely the simplest action would be either not to tick it and apply for games individually as was available almost all of last season, or not to send back the renewal until after we know what is happening. For what its worth, the RFFF has been doing a fantastic job, meeting every week and coming up with fundraising ideas, asking all the right questions of the administrators and Green, and of course were entirely responsible for hiring and working with the QC that fought our case successfully against the SFA in court. Without them we would be without signing capabilities for 2012-13. So yes, they really are the organisation we should be backing to lead the fight.

However, King believes the deal with the administrators should not go ahead. "If there isn't any demonstrated capability [of future funding], it should fail, and fail quickly," he said. "Then at least Duff & Phelps are in a position to negotiate with the only real answer at this point, which is the Blue Knights. "From discussions I've had, there are a number of people who would get involved, but only if the club can be acquired by like-minded people and will be properly funded. My understanding is that he [Green] doesn't have funding and all we're into is the same situation we had with Craig Whyte, where the funding will come out of the season ticket sales, and that will run dry around August or September." So where exactly were all these people when Paul Murray was desperately trying to convince people to invest in TBK so he could buy the club? TBK had a lot of time to get organised, and could in the end only get 5 members, 2 of which were not putting in any significant money at all. He is just bringing out the old emotional blackmail stuff. I'm sorry but we had a board full of Rangers supporters under David Murray, and we were bought by a Rangers supporter in Craig Whyte and none of those ended well, so Im not going to be scared away from supporting an "outsider" purely because he isnt a Bear. TBK deal didnt stack up, Green's appears to stack up so far, so I cautiously move forward with this.

Good point w2g, I could understand it better if TBK deal was so good for the club and the fans that it was something we should all really really want to go through and get behind. But the truth is TBK deal was itself a shambles with such serious funding shortfalls that they couldnt even get to the start line, never mind running the club for the next few recession-filled years which are going to be difficult enough. The reality is that TBK were a brilliant idea that Paul Murray couldnt get to work. The mistakes he made throughout the process, especially getting into bed with Ticketus, were of such a magnitude that could we really trust him to run the club error-free? Could he really make the big decisions and get them right, when the decisions he made during the bidding process proved to be so wrong? I agree that it is going to be hard for anyone to be trusted post-takeover. That trust will have to be earned the hard way, by walking the walk, under very close scrutiny, and I dont think wrong moves will be tolerated by the Rangers support anymore, and any new owner would be weell advised to heed those warnings.

My OP has nothing to do with the meeting between Green and the RFFF. It is pretty much all information that is out there, and proper reading between the lines. I was actually going to write it a week ago when the issue of the "loan" first came up, but I went on holiday and only came back on Tuesday, so it is not influenced by the meeting on Wednesday at all, more a frustration at the way others are working the agenda.

Just shows King up to be not all that clever really.

There has been a lot of talk, mostly negative, about the fact that the funding of the club by Green through the CVA is being done through a loan agreement with certain repayment criteria and interest. Many have jumped on it and wrongly tried to declare that this means he is not really putting any money in, just lending us it until we can pay it back some way down the line. Lets nail this right now. In order to get a CVA agreed, Green had to pump the cash in to fund the CVA and to fund the club from June 1 when the club's cash under admin ran out. It is not certain yet if the CVA will be agreed, as that is up to the Creditors and while it is looking good, nothing concrete can be relied upon at this stage. What were his options to put this money into the club in reality? 1. He does it the way he has done, a loan which would be repayable if the CVA fails and the club is liquidated. If the CVA is approved the loan turns into Capital via shares, and the club exits administration. The loan will not be repaid if the CVA is successful. I can absolutely say that for certain. This is the quickest and best way of getting the money in and the deal done. He is not allowed to officially say this will happen as that would constitute an offer and would be the same as option 2 below. 2. He puts the money in as Capital. Under the rules of this as has been explained to me, he would have to then make an offer for every share available (the 15% not already owned by him). This is very time consuming and costly. Obviously these things are very complicated and well over the heads of most of us, and it is not helped by some who actually know what the deal is and are deliberately stoking up the opposite view to create mischief to follow their own petty agendas. We are having enough trouble with our enemies without some of our own support being obstructive and divisive. What is the only important issue around just now is that the CVA is approved next week. We have already seen a barrage of negative stories trying to derail this process from achieving a successful outcome, and some of these stories have come from so-called Rangers fans who seem to now want us to be liquidated in order that there favoured party can gain control. Firstly we had Green has no money. He has proven he has. Next it was Green's camp is deserting him, nobody has walked away that was already declared as being in. Remember Kennedy saying that if his team were not in by 12 noon the next day a CVA would be impossible? Thats funny because Green came in later than that and still managed to get a CVA out to creditors. We have had accusations of David Low being involved. He is not. We heard accusations that King was suing the club a couple of weeks ago, but he has yet to file papers. He has yet to provide D&P with ANY evidence. His statement yesterday was another attempt to derail the CVA. There is oh so very much more that I cannot put down that has been done to try to disrupt the process from so-called Rangers fans and they really should now give it up and let the club get on with it. By all means we have to keep asking the questions of Green and his consortium, and the RFFF are doing a great job (statements apart!) at pushing Green in every direction to ensure this is getting done properly and with the best intentions. There are still a lot of valid questions we need answered, and the more time we spend trying to get answers to ridiculous accusations that are made up to suit a certain agenda is taking valuable time away from the important issues.

This is something that has been constantly hinted at and used against the Green consortium that he only wanted us to get a hold of the assets, that he was going to sell of and leaseback the stadium and/or training ground. This is excellant news to come out of the meeting yesterday and should give all Rangers supporters some confidence that at least our club's assets will be intact. I have no doubt Green's detractors will just move on to the next thing thrown at him, and while I am not going so far as to say he is the new messiah, I do believe in giving folk a fair crack to prove themselves. So far so good for Green in my book, but of course given what has happened before, we are rightly cautious to take it one step at a time.

"As agreed between Charles Green and the RFFF certain business sensitive information cannot be disclosed at this time.The RFFF is however able to announce that it secured a commitment from Charles Green that he and his consortium will not be mortgaging nor disposing of any of the property assets of Rangers Football Club plc. There will be no arrangement whereby the football club will be required to pay any rental/leasing costs for the use of the property assets now or in the future"