ascender

And like I said, what's the worst that happens if they do nothing? We will in all likelihood still finish second, still qualify for Europe and might even win a cup.

So, I guess the board are just going to hang in there and hope for the best. Tomorrow night is going to be interesting...

I think I'm right in saying that Gio's average results over the piece, until recently, compared favourably to Gerrard's? But were we not also ahead in the league when he came in?

It's hard to not be a bit cynical about the injuries given some of the things that have been in Gio's control this year - i.e. we signed Souttar when we still had Helander on the books. Roofe should have been replaced in the summer along with Jack imo.

But even with them back, does anybody have great confidence in Gio based on what we've seen so far?

I still go back to his first game (not) in charge where he saw that semi final with Hibs which highlighted some of the issues which needed sorting immediately... and he started his first game in charge with those same players in place who had performed so shambolically in the cup.

Let's face it, signing a manager is the same as signing a player - there's only so much due diligence you can do, but there's always going to be an element of risk. You also have the unique world of Scottish football to factor-in and the pressures that come with managing our club.

I thought Gio was the right man for the job at the right time but I was wrong. We need to make the change now rather than prolong the inevitable. This group of players should be more than capable of easily finishing second and winning a couple of cups even if the league is too far gone (because I'm sure we'll drop more points no matter what happens next).

On 04/11/2022 at 13:24, Rousseau said:

I've seen this posted a lot, but what constitutes a "chance"? And how good a chance does it have to be to count?

I'm surprised to see Lundstram on there actually, but not the other three as our tactics for the last 3 or 4 years can be summed up by Tav doing something on the right or Kent & Barisic combining on the left.

Just now, Rousseau said:

Hasenhuttl looks to be on the way out at So'ton. 

 

I wouldn't say no...

Its an obvious link as well with Wilson's background...

So are they going to do something today or try and make it to the World Cup break? Surely the atmosphere is going to be pretty toxic on Wednesday as things stand?

No matter what happens, we really need to move-on from some of these players who have consistently under-performed for multiple managers.

1 minute ago, ian1964 said:

Gio should just hand in his notice

Imagine if he did that, admitted he wasn’t good enough and was walking so the club didn’t need to waste money paying him off and could put that instead, towards his replacement and some signings.

Well, that’s the league gone…. again. Even if we get a late equaliser.

As expected, every time this team looks like they’ve turned a corner, they revert to type in the very next match.

He needs to be gone within the hour of the full time whistle.

I missed the first half but from what I was reading online it sounded like our usual thing where we had loads of pressure without actually troubling St Johnstone?

Just now, Bill said:

The question at the AGM shouldn’t be what happened this season but where do we plan to be in 2025 and what’s the pathway?

I thought when SG came-in we were working to exactly that - a long-term plan with a consistent approach on and off the pitch in terms of how all ages of team played, trained... more focus on training smarter, better fitness and nutrition etc, better facilities. A higher standard all round. We certainly saw the benefits in terms of how fit the players looked.

If you look at the players we've signed and released, on paper at least, you can see the same upward/forward trajectory in terms of quality... But after 55 it seems to have stalled too.

Looking at this summer window for example, on paper at least, Lawrence, Yilmaz, Colak, Davies and Matondo, all looked like good, sensible signings (for different reasons). Even Sands and Tilman, given their potential and apparent ability when played in their natural positions, look like the sort of signings we should be making with a view to being sellable assets.

• But I assumed we'd also sign a #1 keeper... McGregor & Davis would retire.. Borna would probably go.. Arfield too.. And they'd be replaced.
• I assumed Goldson would go but even with my reservations about him, I can see why we chose to offer him a new deal.
• I assumed we would prioritise the signing of a first-choice central midfielder.
• I assumed we'd sell Kent and/or Morelos if they wouldn't sign new deals and we'd definitely get rid of Helander and Roofe.
• And all of this would see us bringing in other players as well as promoting a few like McCann, Lowry and King to be much more involved.

That's a long way of saying that I think we did have a plan, but buts gone off the rails somewhere.

3 hours ago, buster. said:

It won't be long and we'll get the real figures.

 

When we do (alongside what is said in AGM), we'll be able to get a better take on what can and can't be done.

What do you want them to do though?

We don't need to spend massive amounts of money to win this league and we know we already need to reduce our wage bill. All I see on social media is "where's the money gone" and "sack Ross Wilson." I think those at the AGM need to be asking different questions which highlight the issues we're seeing on and off the pitch just now.

Honestly, how much more than everyone bar Celtic do people want us to spend on fees and wages to come up with a team who can beat Livingston at home?

Let's not forget how many years Celtic have had guaranteed European income with which to plan. And the fact they've not been able to progress in the CL just shows how massive the gulf is there now.

Why have we not let players like Jack, Helander and Roofe leave/actively tried to sell them/pay them off? That's three first team players we've not been able to rely-on for how many seasons now? Its not cheap to pay them off, but you could make the case that if we'd done that and replaced Roofe with another striker we would have gone in to the EL final with a fit striker.

That's the sort of thing that's driving me nuts - we're making the same mistakes year in, year out or just not addressing them.

Then we go and sign Souttar. Which I wasn't against... if his medical was sound and we'd got rid of Helander. Instead we've doubled the risk of injury at CB. Its maddening.

To think I was quite happy and optimistic to get last minute tickets for last night. That'll teach me...

Is anybody else having those bad thoughts where just a little bit of you hopes we lose a game like this to force the board's hand to make a change rather than us sneaking a late wine and just prolonging the inevitable?

Did King get a knock? Surely that's the only reason we'd replace him with Sands.

Good to see Matondo on. Let's try playing the ball to his feet and see what he can do. Against Motherwell it was doing my head-in to see us playing high balls up to him when he was out wide on the right.

14 minutes ago, DMAA said:

The only tactic I see is the Barisic overlap, and they’re reading that one every time now. 

To be fair, that's been our primary tactic for about 3 years now hasn't it?

At least Tillman is looking to sometimes do something different and play a ball forward to another midfielder, but often, it just ends up going back the way with the next pass anyway!

This is horrendous to watch.

Lucky not to be 2 down...

2 hours ago, Nevermind said:

I was thinking about Gerrard's time with us when the news broke he'd been sacked. One of things that stuck out to me when comparing our current manager with him, is that opposition players in europe in their post match pressers would always comment on how Rangers wouldn't let them breathe. Relentless, dogged etc. 

Compare that to the hands in pockets style of play GVB has us playing is soul destroying. 

Shoulda known he'd fuck up after insisting on being called the boss and not Gaffer. 

I agree about Europe in particular and I will forever be grateful for what SG did as part of our rebuild, winning #55 and making us a real force to be reckoned with in Europe. But he wasn't perfect. I think his reputation is growing with every passing month since he left, like one of those former players who isn't good enough to make it but becomes a world beater after he's gone.

If he could have motivated the players a bit and sorted out the malaise which seemed to have set-in, I think he'd still be here and his managerial stock would be on the rise.

That said, there's echoes of what's happening with this group of players this season, with what happened during the start to his last one.

13 hours ago, MacK1950 said:

Did he choose or was his hand forced???.

I think that's still part of the mystery and tbh, also from Gerrard's time. But it would seem strange that Gio comes in and doesn't have guarantees about funds for fees and wages.

When Gerrard went, was that because he didn't get the money he needed? Or was he told he had to get CL in order to get cash and/or sell someone to generate cash? Even if he was told the latter, I think he could have sold someone like Aribo/Kamara/Kent/Morelos and come out of it with enough money to fund a couple of players?

I'm still skeptical about why he left. A bit of me still thinks he had no idea how to fix the issues on the pitch so took the easy way out and left.

We've been here before though. The league is such a two horse race that if we don't make the change before the wheels come off, all it takes is a few bad results and the title's lost. We need stability and consistency, but something stinks at the moment and the manager needs to fix it.... Which is something Gerrard seemed unable to do before he left. Which makes it even more bizarre that Gio chose to keep so many of the core squad around.

I refuse to believe Tav is fit. He's not doing anything well defensively or going forward. To be fair, the whole team looks like its struggling fitness-wise.

A focused Morelos would be good, but who knows which version of Morelos we're going to get anymore. I say "anymore", but we have this conversation every six months or so don't we?