ascender

That's just my point, we've needed a big, no-nonsense centre half who isn't disaster prone, for years now but we've still not signed him. So how come other clubs around us have managed to find such players? I'd say Marv was the closest we've come in recent times, but he needed someone with a bit of class & speed to play alongside him, but that never happened.

I don't see much between Hutton and Bardsley, so why don't we just stick with Hutton and use Lowing as cover. Unless Bardsley is willing to commit his future to us, punt him back to Man Yoo as we don't need 3 RBs.

Look at our squad on paper. I'd say that's a promising looking team which we can build on for the future. So why aren't they producing results? The core of the team is the same as last year really and we gave Eck pelters about his record and tried to get him out the door. Its fairly obvious that the players we have aren't good enough.

But, PLG seems to be overlooking some really obvious problems which we've all been moaning about for a few years now. We all know what they are.

If you believe the papers today, DM is giving PLG a month to turn things around. The problem is though, that if he sacks PLG (which I don't think will happen), is that the next manager coming in is left with the same bunch of players and the same lack of cash to rebuild the squad. We obviously don't have the same standard of youth talent coming through as other Scottish clubs, so we can't even rely on young players to fill the gaps at the moment.

Teams like Hibs may be below us in the table (at the moment), but, taking Hibs as an example, they're playing much more attractive football than us and are bringing through talented youngsters who are being looked at with envy by other clubs. Why aren't we doing that?

I still say its harsh to judge guys like Sebo as they're not getting a decent run in the team. This chopping and changing of the team is doing no-one any good at all.

In light of how last season turned out and how many years previously the warning signs have been there for, this isn't a knee jerk reaction by the fans. OK, so the majority should have seen that PLG isn't a miracle worker, but I think we're all entitled to expect that we'd see progress this year, even if we didn't win the league. We'd see our team playing attractive, open football and shore up the defence to make Ibrox intimidate teams again. Unfortunately we're in line to have a worse season than last time round at this rate.

And as fans I think we also have to realise that certain average players just aren't good enough. Since the big names all left a few years back, we've come to accept very average players in our squad and hailing them as being Rangers class when obviously they're not. We're just clutching at straws.

And yes, one thread for all these opinions would be nice instead of the multiple ones just now! but we can't have everything we want, can we?!

Its starting to look like we're no better off than we were last season and with no money to spend, I can't see PLG turning things around at this rate. He seems pretty set in his mind about how he wants us to play, regardless of whether its working in the SPL or not. I've no idea what's going to happen next, but unless we get change from the top down, its going to be an even more miserable time ahead.

We need a no-nonsense player like Big Marv to get stuck in, he was never afraid to put his head or foot in even if he knew he was going to take a knock.

I'm afraid I agree with Calscot, J-Rod never has come good yet other than looking a bit better than when he first came here. Part of the problem is that this now seems to be acceptable for Gers players. Standards have slipped.

Strange you bring up Boab, I seem to remember he came in last season when we were poor and stabilised things as a holding midfielder, just doing a simple, but effective job. Hopefully Clement can do the same for us this year.

I'm starting to think its going to be Man Yoo's season, especially if they can get Hargreaves in the transfer window and maybe another striker (or if Smith comes back and starts to get a game).

I'm sorry to say that I think the signs are looking pretty bad for us and PLG. After a promising start, things aren't getting any better and its very worrying that the same problems are still here that were apparent last year, not to mention some of his bizarre selection & tactical decisions. At the moment it looks like 2nd place is what we're aiming for, but there's every possibility that we'll finish 3rd again. Other teams aren't playing well, so the chance is there to finish 2nd, but on this form we might not take it.

We need to get behind PLG and the club though, but I can see why the patience of some fans is running out as the players just don't look good enough or have the stomach for the fight in them.

I guess it shows which side of the city Gordon's allegiances lie, he'll be a hoop instead of a Ger at some point!

I was hoping Celtic would win as I think we need to be more concerned with catching Hearts. Sorry, but 2nd place is what we should be aiming for now.

Did anyone else see this coming a mile off? We all know what its like when a new manager comes in, usually the first couple of games see the players transformed from their previous form. In all honesty I thought it was going to be a draw, but can't argue with the result, Utd deserved it unfortunately.

Thought I'd bump this thread after today's shambolic performance as I think its even more relevant than ever. Our club needs serious investment in the playing staff NOW as its clear that some of the players we have are simply not good enough and we lack the sort of strong, domineering centre halves that you need in the SPL.

joining the rst is our only way forward.

Check.

The only time I've seen fan power (crap term but you know what I mean) was last season when the AM situation got beyond a joke. DM at least had to listen, following the protests after a couple of games.

Not very dignified though. Not very Rangers. But at least it got coverage.

So can we as fans do anything to let our voices be heard and affect change? I think not unfortunately.

We need to get a few really strong, no-nonsense players in, particularly in defence and midfield. Get the spine of the team right first, so that's a decent, solid keeper, centre back & midfielder along with someone to lead the line. I don't ask for much, do I?

As has been said by lots of people, its strange to see a PLG side with so many players not signed by him in it. I guess that's just down to money, but many of them just don't seem to be good enough. But how are players supposed to flourish under him when the starting XI is change around a lot and he plays a formation which is alien to most of them?

To be honest though, with the money situation, there's no quick fix here unless we got a large cash injection or somehow got entry in to the English league. Hell, even if we played in the Championship we'd be able to attract and afford a better quality of player than we can at the moment.

Looking at the squad on paper, I think we have a good basis to work on. But I thought that last season too. While I wouldn't necessarily take any of Celtic's players over ours for example, we have to face facts and that is that the Celtic team are outplaying us week in week out with players who I wouldn't say are of the same individual quality or potential as ours.

Keepers

As for individuals at the moment, why not play Klos? At least make him earn his money, otherwise, what's the point? Might as well get something out of him while we still can, he's clearly the best keeper we have. Maybe he'll fall back in love with the club and can be persuaded to stay on reduced terms. A few more years of him as number 1 would be a huge step in the right direction if we can't afford to sign someone like Gordon or an established internationalist.

McGregor has shown that he might have what it takes to become our number 1 in the long term. But at the same time, why not play him now if he's good enough?

Letizi looks Ok as a keeper but nothing special. Since Klos has been injured our defence has looked shaky and fragile and has pretty much leaked goals, particularly from set plays. We need some consistency in this position and if I was PLG I'd be making it a priority to make his mind up and stick with it.

Defence

J-Rod - has never lived up to his reputation. Even when he's "getting better" that's just not good enough IMO. It shows just how low our expectations as Gers supporters have become when we accept a player like that will get better at some point and just wait for it to happen. Game after game, season after season.

Papac looks like the real deal, but as I said for most of last season, having one decent centre back in a shaky back 4 with a suspect keeper, is no good. I can't remember a time in supporting Rangers where I've been so nervous at set plays. And this has been going on since just before Klos was injured I think. I think his performances masked the problem a bit as he'd pull off wonderful saves and get us points each season, so even when he had car crash defenders in front of him, he would make up for their short-comings at times.

Svennson, Smith & Hutton - all young players who will come good. But maybe we should accept that without a Gough or Butcher alongside them, they're just not ready yet. Put them out on loan? Or sign a proper leader at centre back who can marshal them and talk them through games.

Midfield

Again, we have a few good, young players who we can't lose with, but like the full backs, maybe they're not quite ready to be first team players yet.

Ferguson I'm not convinced about yet. I know he often gets a hard time from people for no real reason, but he's not the player he was before he left for Blackburn. Whether that's his fitness or the role he's being asked to play, he's a shadow of his former self and another one who every time he has a couple of OK games (by his standard), everyone reckons he's the best thing since sliced bread again.

Hemdani looks like a good holding midfielder and has been one of our best players, but he doesn't have that edge to his game that you need to boss a midfield in the SPL. You need someone like McCall in there. He's another player who we've never properly replaced IMO.

Burke looks like he needs a good run in the team and to stay injury free for a bit so we can get the most out of him.

Forwards

Novo - great to see him back with confidence, but is he really a first XI starter for us? I don't think he's good enough, but at least he's a trier which is start. Again, I think its a sign of our desperation sometimes that a player like this comes back, plays quite well and suddenly he's our saviour.

Boyd - top scorer but needs to work on his overall game. But he's a young lad so lets not panic over him. I'll say it again though, he's our top scorer. So play him. That's one position in the XI we don't have to worry about.

Sebo - Needs more games. All players thrive on confidence, particularly strikers, but that's hard when chances are limited.

Prso - just needs to be used sparingly to get the most out of him.

The more I think about it, the more depressing it gets. As fans, our expectations and standards over the last few years have dropped significantly. Disregarding the money situation, look at the quality of players who left during/after the Advocaat era. Now look at the players who have replaced them. We've just come to accept a much lower quality of player at Ibrox, but also, we seem to be happy to give these players months and seasons to come good, when the fact is, maybe the never will? Giving some of these guys the benefit of the doubt seems to be getting us nowhere.

How many years have I been watching a Gers team who look clueless in the final third? Who have no bite in their midfield? Who have no idea how to carry out simple defensive duties? If I can see it, why can't DM and the coaching staff?

I'm not wanting us to boo the players or anything, we need to be united, but I'm just saying that we're just kidding ourselves and that really we need to tear down the whole playing side and start from scratch. Just write-off 2 or 3 seasons and start again. Let's face it, being patient with the same characters has got us nowhere and we seem incapable of getting close to Celtic yet again. Even when Hearts did everything possible to throw away second place last season, we couldn't catch them. We have no team spirit at all and even though we've been spoiled in living memory by our club's domestic achievements and some of the international players we've had, surely there's another way to achieve success? Other clubs in the SPL have been catching up with us for a few years now while we've been standing still and treading water. I'm afraid its now all coming home to roost and we're looking at a pretty miserable few years ahead at this rate unless something big happens to shake things up from the top of the club to the bottom.

Sorry, its turned in to another one of those rants I'm afraid!

I couldn't believe it when he left Caley after the job he'd done. I know a club like Utd must have a draw if you've been a player there, but he was on to such a good thing at Caley and it was clear that utd was only going to end in tears. I guess that's heart over head stuff for you.

The thing about that article is that there's quite a few paragraphs which really sum up exactly what the problems seem to be at the moment.

The worrying thing for me is that under PLG we seem to be having a lot of the same problems that we had under AM. If we ignore the off the field stuff for a minute, maybe we just need a big clear out of players? A lot of the players starting week in week out are still from the AM era and if they couldn't do it for him, why should they do it for PLG?

Nope, the article seems pretty spot on. There's lots of truth being spoken and a lot of it has been said on here, hardly seems to be rocket science.

Bottom line is that we need to stick together, the club needs our support.

I think we're all agreed that Boyd has a talent for scoring goals. So at the moment, let's just be grateful for that and leave him in the team. When we have a few other strikers in the squad who look like they can do the job better then give them a go.

I think we have more pressing concerns in our XI just now!

Instead of being critical of Boyd, can anyone explain why last season's top goal scorer ( at 2 clubs ) is suddenly not performing ?

Second top scorer in the SPL. Not bad going considering how many games he's played.

I think Boyd is the most natural goal-scorer/poacher we have and I'd rather see him playing off Sebo than Novo. But at the moment I'd rather see Sebo & Novo playing than just Boyd on his own as 1 striker clearly isn't working for us. Strikers need time to get used to playing together, they're never going to get that at the moment with all the chopping and changing going on.

But Dodds was another one who struggled to get a run in the team, but somehow continued to score goals whenever he was given a chance.

So our defence is shaky and we're not making enough chances while we don't have a midfielder who can add 10+ goals to our tally. Sounds like the same problems we've been having for the last 4 or 5 years?

Personally I think Boyd's link-up play has improved over the last month or so. Did he not provide knock-downs for 2 of the goals in Italy for example?

However, I do think Boyd needs to have someone alongside him up front for a few games so they can develop an understanding about each other, all strikers need to be given that time.

As for Boyd, do you not think he's like McCoist where you can't afford to drop him because you know if he gets a lot of chances (which we usually create), you know he'll take at least one of them? He's exactly the sort of player we've been trying to buy since McCoist retired, so I think he should be first name on the teamsheet.

No surprises there, good for le gaffer.

we have had shocking decision against us

ascender would you still say that if st mirren and livorno toke points off us with those shocking penalty decisions

 

i really doubt it

 

we should have had a clear penalty on saturday

but saying that i thought scott mcdonald should have got one on the last minute but the ref shat himself no to give it after the fans were right on his back after we never got one

Shit happens Yes I'd have had a grumble about it, but in the Saints game we should have been 4 or 5 up and it wouldn't have mattered. If we had have lost points because of that penalty against the Saints I'd have been gutted and angry with the ref. But that was one incident in a game where the ref made a mistake for whatever reason. As for the Italian game, it was another shocking decision and the ref was quite weak, but we played superbly and it didn't matter.

Poor refs are not why we're in the position we're in. The refs haven't been great recently, but they shouldn't be an issue when you look at how we've played against some pretty poor teams. We've always had a grumble about crap refs, its just that as we're playing so shit, the decisions they're making are now having an effect on results when they never used to apart from the odd big game, particularly in Europe. Maybe we're just now finding out what its like for the other clubs in the SPL who have been moaning about this sort of thing for years.

I thought Fergie has been excellent the last few games and noticeably, he seems to be a lot more positive and going forward more. Did that not happen yesterday then? You'd have thought that at Ibrox especially, that's where he should be pushing up the park rather than sitting deep or playing back the way.

But the ref is the same for both teams, its not like its just the Gers that get poor decisions going against us. I agree that the standard isn't high, but if we go down this road we'll be no better than certain other teams who constantly hammer on about a conspiracy theory.

We're in a bit of a lull at the moment and when that happens, all the decisions seem to go against you as well, just to add insult to injury. The team need to pull together and show some fight.

The problem we have is that in an SPL game, we will typically create many more chances than our opponent. At the moment, we're not taking as many of the chances as we should be, so little decisions like penalty claims become big decisions and talking points when they really shouldn't be.