andy steel

<groan> not this again

Ffs Allan...why do you think I give a shit about anyone other than Rangers and Rangers fans? It is about how I, me, Andy Steel, fat lad in Johnstone, perceives Rangers and what they stand for. This continual ignoring of what people say in order to invent some great mass of people, all desperate not to offend timmy is nuts!

If you want badly written drivel there are plenty of other down wit da street boards which can meet that need.

Are you referring to the Ranger Standard website here? I gave up on that one after finding out that we are hated to the level we are because (a) a director called a player we bought from Aberdeen 'unfit' in the 60s and (b) we're not as clever as celtc fans. Attempting to find out why we are hated is always going to be a waste of time because there is no rational basis to it...you might as well try and find out why people like Irn Bru or not. They just do, or they just don't. But I disagree with the idea that people have been brainwashed. There will be 101 reasons why people might agree with the position you outline, no reason to assume it is conditioning. The political abdication, however, has been just awful.

Again, I'd point out that my objection to an Orange top is not based on offending others. If you choose to invent reasons for other posters you're not going to get much debtate, Stb.

The club may have no links to the OO, Allan, but bring out an orange strip and that argument falls flat on its arse. Big difference between some fans being Orangemen or women and the club actively particpating in that portion of fandom. I have never hid my distaste for the Order, but if someone wants to get into that it's their business. The objection is not to someone's beliefs but to the club buying into those beliefs.

Max & Mr Steel sounds like an 80s US crime/comedy drama, featuring the all action hunky hero Max and his slightly effeminate English butler/administative helper Mr Steel. Starring David Hasselhoff as Max with Sir John Gielgud as Mr Steel, Heather Locklear also features as the hot blond, for no reason other than I like hot blonds. Max & Mr Steel - 6PM EST.

I suppose it will fill the post-Xmas midweeks if we are out the Cups. Every penny counts.

Football means different things to different people. It would be interesting to hear from Bears abroad how football is viewed in their countries, as a recreational activity for males (quite a lot of Europe, I would imagine), a family based day out (the US and Far East might fall under this category) or the cracked, temperamental barometer of societal standards we see in Britain. You have to wonder, having digested the first few weeks of this new season, what status football has and should have in the UK of 2012. The sad spectacle of the John Terry trial and subsequent FA punishment - let's not dignify it with the name of investigation or anything else which might suggest a relationship between fact and sentence - sums up the confusion football finds itself in. Unable to please anyone, the best intentions of ruling bodies seem only to infuriate everyone. Despite finding Mr Terry thoroughly unpleasant (to go from his media profile - not as if I know the guy) it doesn't add up for people to chastise the FA for banning and fining someone on the most circumstantial of evidence when a court of law has found him innocent. Let's hear people ripping the courts to bits...they may find themselves asked to explain themselves before the beaks, who are not the most tolerant of criticism. What were the FA supposed to do? I believe they've pushed the law of the land as far as they can in this instance, indeed I believe they have pushed it beyond what it can reasonably stand. I may personally have no doubt John Terry used the language he did in an abusive manner, but if it can't be proved in a court of law then I have no right to punish him, no matter how much I may wish to. In order to avoid the dread charge of not taking discrimination seriously, the FA have acted. Even the tabloid media have to come to heel when the courts deliver a verdict; why is it that people expect football to be able to tackle society's issues, such as racism, when society itself struggles to do so? Football is expected to fulfill all the criteria of what seems to me to be a middle class wankfest of acceptable values. Prematch build ups must contain a minute's silence (or applause if there's a chance someone will spoil it by shouting out..I don't buy this 'importing from European culture' idea for one minute) even when the people being remembered have zero connection with the club or even the game, while the main, nay only influence on kids is how they see footballers behaving on their TV screens. It doesn't say much for aspirational parenting if Mum or Dad can't point out to their impressionable youngsters that so and so is a slimeball and in no way a model to aspire to. Objecting to such behaviour can leave you looking like a throwback, happy to - how is it usually put? wallow up one's knees is vile bile. The lack of imagination when it comes to the language of condemnation is quite telling, I feel, and worthy of closer study. It's become a shorthand, with a packet of catch all expressions reflecting a knee-jerk mindset which doesn't examine issues, merely tries to fit the perceived 'acceptable position' or exploit them. Hard to believe, but Phil McGillivan is a good example of this; when outed as a loon the Sun said he was 'tarred with the sickening brush of sectarianism'; sectarianism may be, for some, a live issue outwith Old Firm bickering, but it doesn't make them sick, either metaphorically or literally. When the language becomes meaningless, it is hard to believe the sentiment is genuine. We are no strangers to seeing football held under the microscope in a way politicians, artists, businessmen and so on are rarely if ever studied. The great issues of football which are highlighted - sectarianism, violence, anti-social behaviour rarely touch on my life (only the last and that only occassionally), so why such a massive focus? I can understand why a Nationalist party of government would be sensitive to the image of the nation, and that events such as the sending of devices to football managers would see them sprinting to the drawing board to do what governments always do when faced with potential unrest from below, introduce a new law. The stricter policing we've seen at away games is another example of how the rulers react when they perceive a threat from the ruled. Nevertheless, while the game must come under ultimate control of the state, and as such will have to swallow some laws it does not care for, there are surely more pressing matters in our society than how football operates. Few can have missed the economic pressures of the last five years; our attitudes to drink remain rooted in the middle ages, where people mistrusted water and took to ale instead; drugs remain endemic across the land, regardless of age or status; the list goes on. The whole set up seems crazy. If the most important thing the UK has to worry about just now is how football reacts to incidents, Britain must be one hell of a place to live. Well, it is, but not in a good way. Expecting attitudes in football to do all the work for the rest of society is not a sound basis on which to go forward to the great sunlit future, in my eyes. Yes, there are many issues football can address and improve, but you could say the same for every walk of life in the country. The day I see the board of a corrupt and/or failed bank treated the same as John Terry, the day I see a corrupt and/or crooked politico treated the same as John Terry, the day I see a lunatic 'entrepeneur' who has made off wilth millions treated the same as John Terry will be the day I accept using football as the test for the rest. Football clubs have to shoulder the burden of fan hopes, dreams and expectations. Last Wednesday night I was forcibly reminded how much The Rangers mean to me, how much emotional energy I invest in hoping the team in blue wins. Of course the game does not exist in a vacuum, but ff we choose to add to the load with society's woes, we're asking football to take far too much of the strain; the fear has to be that neither can cope . I cannot see how that would make either football, or society, better.

He's gone from hero to a bit of an Uncle Tom in my eyes after that performance.

Epic fail. Plainly I was not eloquent enough. Who the fuck I am sending out my message to is Rangers fans, now or in the future. ps: I forgot to say that I don't share the usual Scottish fear & mistrust of having a brain, speaking properly, being able to construct a sentence etc. Mentioning me and academia in the same grammatical clause is something I take as a compliment.

The blue and orange does look cracking, I must admit. Brighten up many a dull winter's day's football. Btw that Bayern top must have been XXXL.

That is awkward...how to praise and mock Boruc simultaneously...

This is the issue. If someone from Northern Ireland asks Rangers to launch an orange strip, it is not because it is a nice colour. Those of you claiming it's just a colour must know nothing about Ulster history, which is odd considering 'heritage' has featured heavily so far. Those of you claiming handwringers are scared of offending other fans are ignoring the fact that to import elements of Ulster history - which is what this is doing, Scottish Orangeism has always been marginal and without the perceived Rangers 'connection' would have died out years ago - sends out no message of positivity or inclusivism. It's odd to imagine that buying into the culture of one of Europe's least impressive societies to make money/support a cause improves Rangers...if 10,000 Kosovan refugees from Knightswood decide to buy season tickets, do we launch a strip in the colours of the KLA? Those of you struggling to contain your righteous anger and claims of timposter-ism might care to ponder that for at least one fan, Rangers stand for all this is best in Scotland. There's absolutely no way - none - to include Orangeism in that definition. Link us to the OO, Charles, and you diminish Rangers in my eyes. It was hard to swallow when that epitome of British capitalism, David Murray, was at the helm, and if I hadn't had my head in the sand I would have been even less comfy in my seat. To many on this thread that will mean nothing. As one poster, in a fit of ecumenicalism, pointed out, those who would feel mega-uncomfy with an orange top wouldn't be missed. Good to know that we're a broad church as long as you toe the line. Anyway, we've been here before and the overall result is usually that more fans like Orangey stuff than find it a regressive expression of social and personal alienation. The Orangey crowd always win out, so no need to get too grumpy.

Always goes like this, if you don't especially care for the OO and it being linked to Rangers you are scared of offending other people. I don't care about anyone else. I don't like to see Rangers linked to the OO because I don't care for the latter. Fuck all to do with pandering to others.

They don't have to support Rangers, they are supposed to represent their constituents regardless of who they voted for or what team they support. A chronic failure of parliamentary representation, I'm sad to say.

Coz you and I are paying for it, that's why. I'm not interested in funding a celtc-love in operating out of Pacific Quay. If the Record or the Sun were as plainly besotted with the east end side I wouldn't buy them. Well, I don't anyway, but if I did I'd stop. We have no choice by law but to fund the BBC and with that in mind I absolutely demand neutrality, not some bloody hoops convention every time a sports show comes on TV or radio. In actual fact they are obliged by law to be neutral.

Dunno about the Welsh flag at Ibrox, seems a bit pointless. No harm in it, though, as far as I can see. The point about the Scottish politicians not touching this issue with a bargepole is a good one. No-one has really stepped up, presumably for fear of being associated with us. A poor reflection on the MSPs and MPs that represent us if none of them can approach a sensitive matter with a clear, open position - even it is one of kicking us, at least we'd know where we stood. Their silence is revealing and very disappointing. Gutless doesn't even come close. We now have the ludicrous position of the FM of Northern Ireland doing more about this issue than any elected rep in Scotland.

Speak for yourself - I'm going nowhere and neither is my money, what little I have. Riches from Europe, well now and again we get a slice, but in all reality we are going to get an ever decreasing bit of the CL pie. If entry to Europe is only possible by way of the cesspit SPL then I don't want to be in Europe, end of. We all have different standards of what we consider embarrassing.

As much as I'd love to slam the door in their faces, AMMS's stance is probably the better one in terms of getting results. But I'm well immature enough to prefer a ban. It would make me feel better.

But it does refer to the others! I was thinking specifically of Motherwell, 'they' never entered my mind (I'm glad to say).

Seems fairly apposite to me.

I'd agree with this as long as we can act with a bit of decorum come the reconstruction. I would actually go further than most, I suspect, and say words to the effect that since we fucked up big time by inflicting the SPL on Scottish football, we'll let you guys (SFL) come up with the next plan. I wouldn't like to see us trying to bum our load after what's happened to us.

Society and football really are struggling to reach common ground just now.

There's no contest now. When you weigh up the for and against items, the only one 'for' is finance. As many above have pointed out, the SPL and money are proving odd bedfellows at the moment; there's no certainties regarding money. Also, they have played incredibly fast and loose with monies owed to various clubs, not just us - I don't trust them. And not least, in fact foremost in my eyes, is that the concept of the SPL - which we bear much responsibility for - is no longer one I wish to support. A restructuring of teams allied to a restructuring of leagues is the answer. I just don't want to play with SPL teams anymore. The whole concept is utterly discredited in my eyes. As I say, we helped give birth to it so must accept blame, but it hasn't helped the game one bit. I've learnt my lesson. All of which said, I should think the investors will look at us in disbelief if we push forward on that one. The Sky money will be severly diluted if there's no OF on a regular basis.