andy steel

I hope so, for it will be needed to blow away the shadows and fog. But I fear that those with most to gain from keeping schtum will work out some sort of agreement which leaves us none the wiser until about 2077. As usual, it is the fans who will suffer most.

It's not a good sentence. Your chastisement is quite justified.

'Expand collapse' is right! I didn't realise timmy was playing in the afternoon yesterday - like going back to the 70s, that was - and when I want to wash my dishes I stuck the radio on. Before I could get the marigolds back off to change the station (soft, lemon pink shade, of course) some delusion soul sent in an email gloating that following - it was supposed to be all doom and gloom without Rangers. I'd hate to see what doom and gloom looks like in this guy's eyes. 3 out of 4 teams out of Europe in the preliminaries is apparently not doom and gloom? I had failed to realise that celtc doing well (and it was a good result, that's for sure) meany everyone was doing well.

The OPs obsession with gays is getting really boring.

Another excellent point! The rules will need to be for everyone, rather than just those who feature on Monday Night Football. But since at League Two level, the media coverage is far less, how would it be possible to apply those rules equitably? The whole situation is a nightmare of epic proportions, the worst of which is that there is no solution to be found within football. The only way forward is for society to agree what is acceptable and what isn't - which changes all the time, sometimes you will agree and other times you won't, but at least you'll know where you stand - and for the law of the land to be used when people break those boundaries of the acceptable. None of this 'leaving it to the FA to sort out' cowardice.

A very interesting point. You would have thought that the two levels of proof required wouldn't be that big a deal, but we can now see that since football is obliged to react to issues which would previously been entirely within the scope of the courts, their lesser standard might need to be revised. It seems bizarre that a court can find you not guilty of something and you are then punished the following week for the same offence. If football is asked to be the moral arbiter of our society - even when I type such words it seems ridiculous, but there you are - it's going to have to come up with some absolute, hard and fast rules, and quickly.

Eurgh. You can look it up if you like, but I warn you it's quite stomach churning. Apparently, celtc now represent an amorphous concept called #teamScotland. Barf.

Racism, I think.

I don't think I've ever seen a post #1112 refer to the OP before!

While I agree with the sentiment, it really comes down to individual choice. I won't be going to any away game for the foreseeable. If someone else wants to, I'm not going to call them out over it. Each to their own.

I've had my say on the Orange strip topic, if it's all right I'd like to move OT a bit. It's totally weird how Traditionalists ascribe values to their opposites, the Futurists. They are either handwringers, terrified of offending anyone, traitors to the Union, cowards who won't say they are not monarchists in a pub full of Rangers fans, probably not really Rangers supporters and now, to judge by 54's post, homos as well. On the other hand, the Futurists describe the Traditionalists as in denial, intolerant, and insistent on making everyone share their beliefs. And everyone ends up by saying we are a Broad Church with room for all, as long as we're allowed to slag the other side. Hey! Ole! Fight for the Soul of Glasgow Rangers! or There's only one way to find out.......FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't dig around these people. Not good for us, certainly, but I don't expect the Record to operate on behalf of Rangers Football Club. GS - can I ask you nicely not to use words like 'mongs'? I really hate that sort of talk. Just asking.

Bullshit like 'league reconstruction was on the agenda before the Rangers implosion' doesn't make him very credible. The only thing out of that which sounded accurate was 'I haven't been doing my job properly'.

Not much of a dilemma for me...not 'one thin dime' to any SPL club or the SFA now or forever. If we lose games due to lack of support, well, I'm prepared to take that as part of the price. No Cup Finals, no u-21 games, nothing. Not that I'm one to hold a grudge. I can't see boycotting these people leading to our own destruction, though. Might lead to some of theirs, who knows. Do I care? Not any more.

Hope they go down. Can't stand their manager, nothing is ever his fault. When he was tapped up for the celtc job before Lennon got it, I thought he would have fitted in perfectly with them. Plus they're a wee team. The English top league needs all the big guns up there. Sheffield clubs and the like.

I'm pretty fat myself so I can't slag him for that; if I had a job eating in good restaurants free of charge I'd be fuckin delighted so I can't slag him for that; but I haven't read the Record in years so you might be right on your last point.

Sure sounds like Traynor is sitting on a pile of info which might, hopefully, reveal the rank hypocrisy behind the 'sporting integrity' mantra. That read like a thinly veiled threat to go public with stuff which certain parties - the more energetic one, or whatever he called them, basically celtc, Hibs and Dundee Utd - might find embarrassing. Here's hoping!

Off the point he's making - but I don't get the feeling that Cowan hates Rangers that much more than your usual fan. Cosgrove is certainly in the 'my life revolves around another club' camp, but Cowan doesn't seem so bad.

No chance...I've still not forgiven the 2nd Johnstone for dropping me from the football team.

For some reason there's no agree button under this post so: the following user agrees with this post: Andy Steel.

Well, saying people can 'fuck off' is fairly unambiguous, but I wasn't accusing you of taking sides and I'm not looking for an apology at all. The meaty point you make is interesting and one I hadn't thought of before. Would fans who fit the picture drawn, the fan who won't come to Rangers until the PR is right, be welcome? I can't see why not as long as they cheer for the team in blue. You don't have to sign up for anyone else'e beliefs to be a Bluenose. I mean, I know I spend a mental amount of time on Rangers boards and have done for nigh on a decade, but it doesn't make me more of a fan than someone who doesn't have a computer, for instance. Nah, there's room for us all, I think.

Added to which is their natural laziness and stupidity, mate.

Bit of a contradiction there, though, Anchorman - on the one hand, this issue is about a golden thread (or whatever was on the LP) of our history - and therefore vital to those who dig that sort of stuff - but for fans who don't care for it, it becomes a minor issue of fickleness over PR. We have to admit that other fans have different league tables of what is vital and what is meaningless and there's little point berating others simply because they view life differently from ourselves. Btw, a word of praise for Gersnet in allowing this thread to evolve - sure there will be hard words but it's an emotive subject and very hard to get to the heart of it we have to dance on eggshells all the time. Maybe the mods are all just at work, though!

I'd have to say that is a massive over reaction to other people's opinions. You know as well as I do that Orangeism arouses wildly different passions around here, so there's bound to be clashes. But you know, fair enough if you've had enough. I get that way many times on certain subjects. You feel there's not much point trying.

I didn't know there was a class structure in Rangers boards. If someone could explain it to me, I would be egregiously platitudinous in their direction for a considerable series of twelvemonths. edit: I misread GovanAllan's post, apologies.