andy steel
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Everything posted by andy steel
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Worth a gamble, surely? I mean, he can hardly do worse than what we've managed in the last 20 years or so.
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That's true, but it still doesn't excuse their banner. 'Poor taste' just doesn't even come close.
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Well...two fans, anyway.
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I quite like it, forbidden word removed so as not to get the club into bother, of course. I dunno if we can still sing 'we don't care', though, after the last few years, and mean it...
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I don't know. I didn't put anything in the OP about 'Father's Advice' because I couldn't remember what it was called - now, I've been toddling along Edmiston Drive since the early 80's so it's not as if I don't know the songbook! Seems to me like there's been a real rearguard action amongst the Loyalist fans to ensure they are not left behind, at least vocally. This finds support here (Scotland) amongst the youthful who want to appear hardcore, and their elders who don't care to move on from the 80's, and has a ready outlet in the online community with their 'Rangers fan my arse' mantra and wanker emoticon. The horror! the horror! But even if you're right, lifting the songbook of Northern Ireland because 'it's really good for a sing-song' must be one of the most culturally crass moves in the history of fandom. Terrorism is not only always wrong, it's hardly a fit subject for a singsong! Loyalism is not terrorism, would be the reply to that. Well, stop singing about the YCV or the UVF, then! I've no issue with 'loyalist' music like The Sash or No surrender - although I don't sing the former since I've no time for Orangeism. When Tom English berated Malcolm Murray for saying 'no surrender' he failed to understand that, while to him it may mean Irish history, to me it means 'don't give up, Rangers!' and nothing more. Culturally insensitive? Maybe, but if your skin is so thin that something from 300 years ago bothers you I suggest you don't leave the house...I bet you there are plenty of Scotland fans who sing Flower of Scotland, then will vote 'no' in the referendum. Singing a song is not a binding legal contract to enact all the words contained therein, you know. But some are certainly less tasteful than others, & the more recent the issue, the less tasteful the ditty. And anyway, few pressmen were likewise upset by the content of the banners at Parkheid last week, only the effect on celtc and the timing. Can't have it both ways!
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Incredible that anyone could try to equate the two. Funny how 'whataboutery' is verboten when it's us raising the issue, but fine when some writers are doing it!
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It's possible I put 2+2 together and got 5, but given the behaviour of some of our support I don't apologise for leaping to that conclusion, cb.
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Fire up the rolls & slice, pour a cuppa and enjoy/suffer the latest epistle from your local Handwringer in Chief. Liberal democracy is a good thing. It certainly has its faults, but overall a system which allows you to disagree with it without consequence is always preferable to one which imposes penalty on speech or thought. You might think, given the experience of the 20th century, that this is a lesson humanity has finally learned, but alas the lesson of history is that mistakes are seldom, if ever, absorbed. These thoughts came to mind last week as I re-read my copy of Clive James's wonderful 'Cultural Amnesia', a collection of essays on the effects of totalitarianism on humanity and the humanities in the last century. As always with Mr James, it is genius written with the lightest of touches: the best kind of teaching. You can pick up a copy for about £3 on Amazon and I'd heartily recommend it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cultural-Amnesia-Necessary-Memories-History/dp/039333354X The defence of freedom of speech was quite the hot potato this week, with some idiot celtc fans feeling the need to compare a 14th century bandido with a 20th century murderer. As if the 700 years in between hadn't taught the Irish anything; no, they were fit to be subjected to medieval methods of warfare. If only they could see how insulting they are to the people they stupidly profess to defend! And in fairness, loud had been the opprobrium from on high within Parkhead. Mr Lawwell don't like it, Mr Lennon don't like it, and surely the final nail for celtc fans, even Mr Spiers, he don't like it. But what is it they don't like, exactly? Well, the timing and the place. Not the picture of a mentally unbalanced killer with a persecution complex added to a natural penchant for psychosis on banners, but the doing of it in such a way as to embarrass celtc fc. In what was probably a throwaway but nonetheless revealing comment last week, Mr Spiers was of the opinion that 'there are rights and wrongs about the IRA but the football is not the place' to discuss them. I have spend a few days trying to think what the 'rights ' of the IRA were and have drawn a blank. Perhaps some other readers can write in with their solutions to this problem. A free bus ride around Belfast town centre, loudly setting out your thesis, will be the prize. On the rare occasions I think about Ireland, I guess that in the long run of history, it will probably end up as the one country. Not exactly plan 'A' to make you popular in amongst the Vanguard Bears, but there it is. But if it happens, it will be through democracy, not violence. Terrorism is always wrong. So here's where poor Clive James is roped in to educate the wretched Mr Spiers and his pals in the east. Terrorism is always wrong. Whether it be Bobby Sands or, as we discovered last week, some madmen in the British Army running about acting like an Argentine death squad, it is always wrong. And using it to score cheap points is always wrong, and not just on the grounds of timing - on the grounds that rehabilitating terrorists in the way that celtc fans and the BBC have done this week ('IRA hunger striker' is so much less aggressive than 'terrorist murderer', isn't it?) is dangerous to democracy. As the lessons of the 20th century showed us, we need to be on our guard against those who would deny free speech. It may seem hypocritcal to ask for free speech and then deny it for the Green Brigade, but with the freedom to speak comes the need to speak with responsibility. No more throwaway remarks about 'rights and wrongs', some things are always wrong. You don't have to be a cynic to wonder where the Scottish Journalist's Book of Adjectives to Describe Current Buns went this week: no 'vile', no 'songs of hate', no 'embarrassment to Scotland in the 21st century', 'no sectarian bitterness', no quotes from Peter Kearney about how awful it all is. Just 'rights and wrongs' and 'maybe the wrong time and place'. We can only hope that such lunatics as Bobby Sands never return to our shores to demonstrate to the likes of Mr Spiers just how thin the divide between liberal democracy and terror in our society is. Hopefully he will get 'Cultural Amnesia' for his Christmas - one way or another, he, and the celtc fans, need to get the message: terrorism is always wrong. But, as always, there's a but. And while it has been lovely to bask in the reflected inglory of the other mob this week, we must be careful what we wish for. For should the amazing happen and Vincent Lunny actually dare chib celtc for once, you can bet he will be on uber-Orange alert for something to even up the score. And we will give him the ammo he needs, I fear. 'What's the handwringer moaning about now?' I hear you ask. Well... 'Super Rangers' for a start. It is going to have to go, and it would be better if we did it rather than had another war. But even that is a bit old hat, and I'm not keen to have that same argument over again. What's bugging me is maybe something that Lunny wouldn't notice, but a super sensitive handwringer such as myself does. When big Daly got us off the mark against Arbroath, about 50 Bears chose to express their happiness with a burst of The Sash. You may think that a coincidence: I don't. I think it was a classless and tasteless riposte, along the lines of 'Aye, well, you may have scored, but don't think we're going anywhere!' At least they left out the add on, which about 10 Bears didn't at kick off. Nevertheless, what a nice touch to thank a model professional. I hope they get over it, and soon. Now, I actually think that reducing the idiot rump of our fan base to about 70 or 80 away fans is something pretty amazing, and the club and most of the fans ought to be congratulated for it. But they won't, you know they won't. In a society which falls over itself to avoid offending the sensibilities of IRA supporters you know that as long as one Bluenose yells FTP we will be hauled up. We could easily lose the musical two fingers to Jon Daly, and we should lose the forbidden line in Super Rangers. It will make them look worse, and that's always good! And especially, we could lose the UVF tribute lines....terrorism is ALWAYS wrong, remember. Weirdly, in Scotland support for terrorism seems to be considered slightly less offensive than what I stubbornly believe is meaningless yells from football fans with a drink in them. You'll never persuade me that the Green Brigade were all steaming when they rattled up what must have been the least catchy slogan last week, and you'll never persuade me that the vast majority of 'sectarian' events in Scotland are little more than Rangers-Celtic tittle tattle. But that's how the chips are falling, thanks in part to liberal consciences like Mr Spiers'. We can't let distaste for the like of him push us away from defending liberal democracy, but there are one or two things we could do to make it better. It may make you feel slightly sick to actually have to tell people this is 2013: it should do. But Mr Lawwell, Mr Lennon, Mr Spiers, and our own hero-worshippers: terrorism is always wrong.
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James Forrest arrested over alleged sexual assault
andy steel replied to ian1964's topic in General Football Chat
I bet one or two Koln based Tims would have choked on their morning cafe when they read that! -
Take TRPB away!!!
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The money came in, the money went out again, and as of the present our infrastructure is non-existent, our 'plan for the future' non-existent, our financial future still wobbly (at best), we are owned by a Trust fund, the whole admin process was highly dubious as was the way we came out of it, yet several people now gone are now substantially richer. Hiring one or two people of a superior calibre is not enough to make up for their mistakes - you'd hardly hire the burglar who shat on your carpet to fit a new one, would you?
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Outright accusations are frowned upon on Gersnet, though, so I'm stepping cautiously lest I incur the feared wrath of Frankie.
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No regrets for Dons chief Milne on Rangers decision
andy steel replied to ian1964's topic in Rangers Chat
Pffft. If I wanted to know what Aberdeen were thinking, I'd ask Peter Lawwell. 'Hey, Wiggy! Gonny say something about Rangers to take the heat off us for a day or so?' -
I console myself with the thought that posters who back Stockbridge & Irvine are not actually fans but minions of the PR dept at Ibrox. If they are fans, voting fans, we've had it!
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You're right there. It's bullshit. I haven't regurgitated anything from anyone, pro or con. I think the current board looks solid with the exception of Stockbridge, and once he and the cretin Irvine are removed I'm happy to see the new board guys go ahead. I wonder why you made that up? Comedical is a very good word here. It means a joke or event which is so funny or sick that you need medical attention after hearing it.
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And I'm under the impression you are regurgitating Irvine's shite. As I say, all about opinions.
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It's all about opinions but frankly having Irvine's regurgitated shite on here makes me feel queasy.
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Ironically, Spiers has just broken the law he supported on electronic legislation, claiming there are 'rights and wrongs' about a proscribed terrorist organisation while broadcasting. Be a laugh if someone brought a private prosecution under the law he was so keen on, eh?
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Man, I never have a clue what's going on. I must be the least well connected Bear in Scotland.
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I hope they showered vigorously afterward.
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If by 'they' & 'them' we are talking about Celtic then you are right, there will be no rapprochement. No doubt they would treat any attempt with their usual class and dignity. I don't think fans of other sides, other than celtc's faithful acolytes Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would care that much about us either way to rule out conciliation, especially if it came from our side. Leaving aside natural football rivalry, hate and name calling I think we maybe over estimate the case if we imagine fans of Motherwell or St Mirren, say, maintaining an obsession over us for years to come. Calscot - Bluntly and most annoyingly, a lot of our wounds have been self inflicted. We gave the haters an open goal to score and just as I hope we wouldn't/won't, they didn't miss. BUT - no David Murray style capitalism, no Craig Whyte criminality, no Charles Green bluster and lying, and they would not have been able to do a tenth of what they did to us. Instead of threatening lawsuits right left and centre, if we had dealt with what seems to me like actual criminality - the 5 way agreement - through the courts, while doing our damnedest to clear up the mess we had left behind us, we would have been better off. There's that face painter in the papers again, moaning about his £2,000. Why the hell hasn't he been paid, since we can find hundreds of thousands for board members at the drop of a hat? No, there is no obligation to pay creditors post-liquidation but in the case of a football club it seems like the right thing to do, especially given our much vaunted moral high ground, especially when the people owed are fans and especially if we are trying to avoid becoming pariahs. I think that, in our playground, a lot of people are watching on with disinterest because they feel we 'had it coming' and behaved poorly when armageddon hit and in some ways I find it hard to argue against that (not all, to be sure). If we change a bit, I think others may. Then we may see the bully less able to do his dastardly deeds without Mr Thwacky, the non-Bluenose but fair headmaster, intervening. Of course the weakness of this argument is that at present Mr Thwacky is called Stewart Regan and may as well go to work with a green & white scarf around his neck...but if we think we can shift him and the rest of the cabal by out waiting them in a game of isolationist chicken I think we are mistaken.
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I think that's overstating the case a bit, to be honest.
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It would depend on whether the Co-op bank has been giving out low interest loans to football clubs which actually are important parts of their community; you know, the ones the likes of Commissar Spence are always going on about. If they've been consistent, well, it seems like excessive charity but it's their decision. If it's only been cetlc who have benefited, it looks a lot like corruption.
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Hmmm, annoyingly good points, gentlemen. I certainly won't be going to any former SPL grounds, and I doubt if I'll bother going to any away games from now on. Ironically, given the whining from home fans about how they hate the atmosphere when Rangers visit, I find the hostility we receive wearying. Given I've no ties with any Orangey bits, smashing or otherwise, I get somewhat bored at being labelled a dirty Orange bastard for two hours. So truce or not, my money will be staying in Rangers coffers. Of course, if it's safe there is another matter! At the very least, all those fans who for years have whined about how they refuse to follow their local team when the bogitts are in town will have the chance to fill their stadia to the rafters if fewer and fewer Bluenoses follow on to away games. Ha! How to make peace with someone shooting at you is rather harder to answer, alas. Perhaps by forming alliances with the shooter's allies and sneaking round on him from the back?