andy steel

Apples and oranges. Any hint that we would face the same trouble finding people willing to be members, and to be members for as long as they can scrape together the cash, is ludicrous.

I totally missed all this. Do we often play CL opponents now? That sounds like a great idea.

Of course I can explain, no trouble at all. When I started watching the Rangers in the period mentioned, the quality of play on offer was dreadful. When I wander up now, cough up considerably more for the priviledge of sitting in pretty much the same conditions the quality of play on offer is, to my eyes, at the same level as it was back in the day. As you say, ending the season as champs is plainly more edifying than crawling home in a miserable mid table slot - but this does not in any way mean the football we are playing THIS season is anything but poor, in a very poor league. So the competition is pish. I won't argue, I agree. But that's no reason why we should be too, especially with what I consider an excellent manager in place and with players who are capable of far better than they are showing at the nonce. You mustn't assume a mildly critical post is a blast at all things Rangers, you know.

In fairness, I don't think there's anyone who could get the deals we are hoping for. With the club in the state it is, we're dealing with not only no aces, but hardly any cards. Indeed, the only card we have is to hope that the likes of Boyd, being a Bear, will allow emotion to overcome business sense. Plus, any buying clubs know we are goosed and that if we reject any bid above say, GBP1m, the bank are likely to start coughing. Best of luck to The Man With The Tan, but I fear it's a hopeless task.

That's not true. Smith is the man, along with McCoist, who has turned Boyd from a poacher with no other attributes (and question marks over his fitness) to a far better all round player who, I would say, is unlikely to keel over should we play another Cup Final in the sunshine. Far from failing, I think getting Kris Boyd to go someway to realising his potential ranks as one of Smith's finest achievements!

It is an interesting point though - I would say the last time we had an squad performing this poorly was just before the Souness appointment, 84 or 85ish. I don't go back before that; maybe we had some poor spells previously. What does inspire a mote of optimism, though, is that the players who are underperforming at the moment - Whittaker, Thomson, Davis for example - are capable of far better things. When gazing with youthful gloom upon the limited abilities of Davie MacKinnon, Dougie Bell, and Craig P******n, even my acne-ridden head knew they were playing as well as they could.

None of them know anything about what's going on, and that's what is hurting them the most. I heard Spiers voice by accident while driving home tonight, and instantly switched off Clyde; I heard Euan Cameron quoting some stats that made Walter Smith out to be our worst ever European manager. Off. I know it's all to drive traffic to their shows. But it's the equivalent of finding a powerful transmitter and screaming 'I'm an idiot!!!' at the top of your voice.

I can see why he works well with Craig Levein. Together they have a mental age of about 16.

I suppose it comes down to the level of ambition you're willing to tolerate. I would trade fan ownership for some years of limited success, but it would have to be with the ultimate goal of producing players on a Dutch style model, and so ensuring as far as possible, some success. No point the fans owning a 2nd division team, I suppose. But remember, if our aim is little wider than domestic - and it is for the foreseeable - then the small incomes mentioned by board members would just about suffice. It's not as if we're up against big spenders in the SPL. We would just have to be better at producing players; better at playing; better all round. And maybe, bit by bit, you scramble up a rung of the ladder, and bit by bit the income increases through player sales and European money. Or, at some point in the future, league restructuring puts us in a better place re:TV money. The point is, fan ownership isn't just a wishy washy dreamscape, in which everything is rosy - some kind of footballing Utopia. It represents a chance to take the club into totally different waters, in which we will have to find answers to questions we don't even know yet! New challenges in a new world!! Doesn't that sound a bit more exciting and interesting than another 3 home games against Motherwell? But I have to admit, I can see just about no-one going for this. I only wanted to point out that not everyone was unaware that fan ownership had consequences for the team on the pitch, but that nevertheless it's a vibrant and stimulating alternative to what is becoming, frankly, the League of the Living Dead.

Could be similar to Kenwynne Jones, who was on trial under McLeish but frankly didn't fancy playing in a backwater.

Thanks to TB for posting all those speeches. There is certainly some encouraging moments in them; particularly Martin Bain and his staunch defence of the supporters, and put down to those who deserve it. Overall, though, it's a depressing picture. I understand that 'football is a business' and the board have to be realistic, can't afford to be idealistic, as per Mr Johnston, but oh dear...what else is football but a dream? If you take the idealism out of it, there's not a lot left, for me at any rate. It's this clash between the unrepentant business ethos of the board and the reason I follow Rangers that puts me off the 'official' side of things. One is left in a muddle, not knowing whether to slate these business types who appear not to have noticed the all too apparent failings of their system, but are ready to decry an alternative, or just pretending they aren't there and concentrating on the actual football. Plan B, I think.

Why do the papers ignore the evidence that Boyd will struggle to settle in England, let alone Turkey, when he moves?

I say, well said.

I know it's hard to keep a lid on these things, but I'm uneasy at hints and tips being passed around messageboards. It doesn't point to top drawer professionalism, at the very least. As much as I'd love to know what was happening every step of the way, that's not how these things ought to be done.

Ach, no way. Those who shout a lot might like you to believe that the Rangers support is a homogenous mass of Unionist conservatives, but it's not borne out by any sort of voting break down you care to mention. Where do all these right wingers go cometh the election? One of the ways the club can go forward into the next decade is by divorcing itself from anything political - look at how 'they' looked the other night. And btw I wouldn't class waving the Union Flag as political.

I love garlic mushroom puri.

I dunno about the CoS, Bluedell. I was quite impressed - very impressed, I should say - by the Life and Work Committie during the last 80s/early 90s - I think they heavily influenced the move away from doctrinaire Thatcherism toward the wishy washy monetarism with a human face we've had the last decade. I don't like it much, but it's certainly better than what went before, and I think the CoS must get credit for that. Recently I haven't heard so much from them, but that may be a mix of my indifference and a news agenda which looks elsewhere for religious comment in Scotland. Has there been any controversial moderators of late? Always good for a stushie. UCB quotes my post and suggests it is a disgusting mix of red and green. I kind of think he's talking about the STUC rather than me: I certainly hope so!

I'll be delighted to see Broadfoot back. For what we paid, in a period when we can't afford real quality, he's a 100% trier and a Rangers man, who has only occassionally let us down - when many voices were saying he would be a disaster. He's no Baresi, but you don't need a team of superstars to be successful.

You can level that accusation at any stripe of politico, though. Anyone Scottish would know that hitching your star to either half of the Old Firm immediately and indefinitely alienates the other half; how the STUC can possibly think this is a way to advance either their agenda, or that of the Palestinians, or that of the Green Cheese People from Bambataa, is beyond me. It's even worse than that idiot Galloway. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<depressed> The STUC really, really aren't helping the left wing movement here. What a bunch of idiots.

Again it comes down to the split between those who follow the game and those who administer it. We've seen wishy-washy laws pertaining to singing and shouting and behaviour being brought in, but the SFA, the SFL, and especially the government and police haven't had the balls to come right out with it and ban what they consider anti-social behaviour across the board. No point in half measures, they might as well get it done, because all this tip toeing around what is acceptable and what isn't just leads to things like this incident. Fans singing abuse directly contravenes the European Human Rights Act in terms of derogatory abuse; there's no good claiming there's too many fans at a ground to do anything about it. If that's the case, clubs could save a mint by doing without stewards or police altogether! Either go back to allowing pretty much everything and class it as a safety valve for society or get on with it and get people busted. You can't have it both ways.

I try to keep out of RST threads as I'm not, never have been and never will be a member, but FWIW: anything these people are involved with I won't be touching with a barge pole.

I do feel sorry for Maloney, he looks like being the next talented Scottish player to do nothing with his career.

Rangers International! The Gerintern!! Who knew David Holmes was a student of Lenin?

We're used to players who pull out of international squads after a particularly tiring wank...it was clear as day before we signed Bougherra that he was fanatical about Algeria, surely it can't be THAT big a suprise that he puts them before his club? Certainly it's a culture shock, but not out of the blue. That said, very few teams would put up with his behaviour - the likes of Kingston at Hearts is the same - and I wouldn't doubt most are right that he will be punted. It's a shame.