craig

I got sent it today and I didn't even recognise who it was !!

What, get Bardsley in at LB ? Surely not.

Damn !! Wish I had put up the bets I got today - you all would have won a fair chunk of cash. I had 3 out of 3 and one non-runner. Am up 3,400 quid today (HOWEVER... I was down 1,500 yesterday - but I will take that net profit any day of the week). And... whilst I was in Italy I got a bet through from one of the tipsters and it won...... at 12/1 - and I put 200 quid on all these bets - but i missed this bet as we were doing a tour in Florence - oh well, some you win some you lose.

I wish I was wrong Gribz. Reading will surprise a few people this year and could do what Wigan did last season by defying the critics to have a decent position come season end

Your 134 statement still isn't valid Gribz. I am not talking about picking ANY XI - I am talking about your chosen starting 11 versus the chosen starting 11 of any other club - and there are at least a half dozen teams (as I mentioned) that have a stronger starting 11 than the one you mentioned. But anyway.... we are debating for the sake of it now. Off out this weekend ?

See, even that 134 teams argument holds no water because you said that your 11 was as good as there is - which is not a statement that they are top 10 but that they would be #1 or at least on a par with the best - and the fact is Gribz, it wouldn't be ! See the thing with this "on their day" argument is that to have a decent comparison you need to also assume the teams you are comparing them against are "on their day" too - otherwise you are comparing apples with oranges. And your 11 on their day wouldn't even come close to the teams I listed above on their day (Celtic excepted). And do you really want that 11 "on their day" ? Because that is a suggestion that you would love to see them play excellent once or twice together but are then happy to accept the abject pish they put out for the next 5 games because they lack consistency. I think we are arguing/debating for the sake of it here. Simply put, I disagree with your synopsis that your 11 would be as good as any other in the UK. You think otherwise and that is your prerogative my man - but if you would be comfortable with that defence coming up against the top strikers in the UK then yikes.......

Despite my disagreement - good luck my man

Ohhh I was, was I ?? You also know the lottery numbers for tonight "mystic Gribz" ? I believe the Lira actually does still exist (saw it a few times when in Italy the other week) - or am I lying to cover my back ????

When I saw your coupon Gribz I thought the same as Gav - didn't like the Charlton pick and Reading are a decent side too - I think Reading will be coupon busters a few times this season

I agree Re Sebo - he hasn't looked that great but he has hardly had a chance to prove himself. I am also inclined to agree Re Novo but the fans would have to be patient IMO. He plays on confidence and now that he has bagged a couple of goals he will be high on confidence so maybe a start in his preferred position might yield results.

Sorry to be a pedant Gribz but you initially said that your team on its day is "as good as there is in the UK" and now you justify it by comparing it to the team sitting at the BOTTOM of the EPL. Just some teams that would still comfortably (hypothetically) beat that 11 of yours.... Celtic (yep, afraid so), Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool - and I would also be tempted to include teams like Everton, Villa and Spurs as well as a few others. But if you think that your team is as good as there is in the UK then I think we will have to agree to disagree. Then you go on to change your whole argument - your 2nd paragraph now says that your team is "easy a good side". Why is it to be ? A good side or as good as there is in the UK ? Because it definitely isnt the latter. See, nowhere did I say it wasn't a good 11 - but it is a long way short of being as good as there is in the UK !!!

I am not convinced he is hinting at no-one coming in. I think he is more saying that if there is the chance to bring quality in then he will take it but he won't be buying just for the sake of buying - I actually agree, even though we are screaming out for at least 1 CB and a striker - I would rather we get better players than are already there as opposed to just getting anyone. If the quality isn't there in Jan at our end of the market then I think we should wait for next summer. I think we can secure 2nd place with the squad we have and, lets face it, we won't catch Celtic and the chances of us making the UEFA final are very slim no matter who he would purchase in the next transfer window.

Stay off the medication Gribz... that team on its day is still nowhere near being "as good as there is in the UK". I didn't say Klos isnt the best keeper we have - but you would honestly drop a YOUNG keeper in FORM, playing well and having just signed a new contract for a guy that is aging, hasn't played in 18 months and who it is common knowledge will in all likelihood retire after this season anyway ? From a continuation point of view IMO that would make NO sense. And you have been ogling too many lady-boys - your senses are obviously wasting away over there

If they were bald as a coot might have been my wife Gribz...... just kidding

McGregor doesn't deserve to be dropped, not even for Klos. Are you serious about putting Fergie on the left hand side of an attacking midfield of 3 ? Buffel hasn't kicked his own arse when played this season and neither Novo nor Sebo convince that they can be natural goalscorers yet either..... in other words I am doubting your claim that "this team would take some beating". You been eating Mars bars with Fraser in the playground ?

Sorry stewarty but you aren't correct here. Yes it is a 10 yr deal but the 18 mill was an up front payment - the deal is actually a minimum 48 mill, so Gers get 18 mill up front (not 1.8 per yr over 10 yrs) and they ALSO get a MINIMUM of 3 mill per yr for 10 yrs. So to use your "franchise" example it is 18 mill up front plus a franchise fee of 3 mill per year. Believe me... there are ways of hiding payments to yourself - I have seen it a number of times in the past - however, I don't believe that it is happening with DM - I think the 18 mill is there but rather than use it to strengthen the squad he has used it to reduce the debt. True, but he HAS said he expects to leave in the next coupleof years. Indeed, were it not for those last day title wins we would be staring down the barrel of a potential 9 in a row, which is sad because their dominance has come very much hard on the heels of them being almost bankrupt and VERY inferior to us. However, that in itself is a good thing in that we know that we are in a mess right now but if THEY were on the brink and are now dominant, with the right management at Rangers there is no reason to think we could not rise again and be the dominant force. Yes, and PLG could very well be the first piece of the jigsaw - I think he has under-estimated the SPL but he is a very smart man and I am sure he will be thinking of players that will be suited to the rigours of the SPL, seems he has so far brougt in players that would suit a French type game, good for Europe but not so for SPL. Agreed re experienced players - for me the spine is most important - McGregor looks like he could be the keeper for a few years if given his chance and confidence is there, Fergie seems to be getting back to his previous best - if only we could get 2 centre-halves that could be more dominant then we wouls have a strong spine and then you can slowly improve the other positions. Agreed re Celtic, I don't think that they are that much better than us - but they have the winning mentality - although to be fair WGS did a great job pre-season by bringing in JVoH, Gravesen and Jarosik. We need the winning mentality and it will breed confidence (I have still to see a team play better this season than we did in the first couple of games of the season - if we had turned those first 4 or 5 games into wins there is no saying where we COULD be right now - all ifs, buts and maybes though).

Funny post. I am actually inclined to think we shuold just bring back all those guys to PLAY for the team....

Keep studying for the pre-lims Fraser - Adam is NO WAY a left back (that suggestion is probably worse than Rae for RB ) There is NO POINT in putting a midfielder at LB when we have a player that can play LB i.e. Papac

I don't doubt it. I can't even imagine what being a millionaire would be like - I know a few though, and they seem pretty level-headed. The main change in my lifestyle if I were a millionaire I think would be a pretty simple one - no further financial problems - all I have ever wanted is to not have to worry about money (don't even need to be a millionaire for that though).

The connection or guarantee of the debt once in place will be at the whim of the bank to take it off guarantee. I would think the bank would take it off the guarantee, but you just never know. Yes, another old adage "It takes money to make money" - and it is true, it is much easier to make money when you are rich - the sad thing is that the vast majority aren't.

Anothe reason that Abramovich might not be paying off the debts is that he may make MORE money on the cash he keeps than the cost of debt. Our company have went througgh about $3 billion of financings in the last 3 years and one of the reasons for doing so is that the cost of debt has been low while the returns on our investment portfolios is high. Eg for Abramovich using calscot's numbers..... 1. The club has debts of 180 mill and cost of debt is 5% fixed - 9 mill a year cost. 2. He obtains through his investment managers a return of 8% on his investment portfolios - 14.4 mill a year. This means by having 180 mill of debt on Chelsea's books he makes a PROFIT on the debt of 5.4 mill a year. Also it means that the profit is HIS, not the club's because the investment portfolio is from his own investments whilst the club's debt is its own, although it is guaranteed by Roman. In effect, each year he actually gets income into his own bank account of 14.4 mill and, as calscot says, as long as Chelsea can service the debt and reduce the debt balance (even if only in small amounts) then he actually makes even more money. I am not sure if DM has guaranteed the loans, has he ? VR is a slightly different scenario, he doesn't really need to guarantee the loans as they are from his own company anyway, benig the bank. I agree Re the Glazer's that it is criminal to basically buy a club, or any business for that matter, without putting up any capital of your own - they will eventually own a very successful, very rich, football club and have paid nothing for it. However, sadly, that is the business, and even football, world these days. Sad times indeed and without scruples.

Nah, Bermuda is tagged to the dollar. You are on the right track though - I am a millionaire but only in certain currencies (like the lira or the Iraqi Dinar)

All in good time my man..... hopefully !

Real don't carry as much debt as many of us think IMO. A few years ago UEFA were considering only allowing teams with certain debt levels to enter the CL (UEFA's way of trying to ensure that clubs were fiscally responsible) and Madrid would have been one of the ones turfed out. However, because the club is so important to the local economy the local council purchased the Bernabeu to clear the debt and then rented the ground back to them for next to nothing - so they instantly cleared the debt. Now, I am sure they have clocked up more debt since then but with the TV deals etc they are racking up (740 mill over 7 yrs - YIKES !!!) they don't have that high a debt level (I think !). Thing is Pete, I know what you are saying and it makes sense, and also would be fiscally prudent - but the SPL or UEFA don't hand out prizes for being the best club at watching the pennies. I think it was calscot that said the other day that with DM it has been either boom or bust (HUGE spending to NO spending) when what we need is a balanced spending policy. If we had that approach during the NIAR years we would probably not be in the position of bargain basement spending right now and would be more competitive - and we probably would also have won as many trophies as we did because we were far superior during those years and had enough in reserve to stay ahead of the rest - but then, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Mike, the sad thing is that it already HAS cost us. If you look at the games we have drawn or lost this season in the SPL because of bad goals conceded and took those awful goals back we would be an awful lot closer to Celtic than we are, and we would be well clear in 2nd place. I certainly hope PLG realises how poor our central defence is and strengthens it with no-nonsense centre-halves, or at least ONE and another who is the more cultured passing CB. Surely he notices where our one major weakness is. he knows the game an awful lot more than we do so surely he sees it !