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I've got some sympathy with that view. It seems that half our support are ready to jump on any bandwagon to slag off our players over the past few years and a couple of bad games get exaggerated into half a season. To be fair, it seems to me that it's largely the non-match attending fans who are the worst for it, but it does get a bit draining where some players are harassed in person and online.

Just seen the highlights. VAR missed Dessers jersey being held at a first half corner. Not a surprise any more is it?

They didn't miss it just chose to ignore.

Another thing from last night but also a general point about modern football: defender has back to forward and is covering the ball. Forward lays the merest of touches on defender, who immediately falls over. Free kick, every time. Infuriating.

Erm, we're not very good to watch. Two decent goals but other than that there's a lot of misplaced passes and general lack of conviction about us. You know it's bad when international breaks are a welcome relief.

I've heard the supporters (of that team) who populate the football programmes in Scotland say on many occasions "it wasn't enough of a foul". They are treating us like fools.

Funny that you should mention that, unless you are Martin Samuel of The Times' sports pages. I assume that you're not him, because he is, as far as I know. a West Ham man. Mind you......he is opinionated (his job, I shouldn't wonder) and is known to talk a lot of shite (his job, again, I shouldn't wonder), but maybe, sometimes, just sometimes, a coincidence is merely a coincidence. 😉 Today, Samuels has a piece on VAR, etc. and, one can only agree with him, that officialdom seems to be improvising, winging it, ie making it up as it goes along. He's right to be concerned, as should we, and moreso - this is the country where some officials are manifestly terrified of one particular football club, its influence in League and Association, and its 'fans', generally, and within the media; where some officials manifestly undertake their professional duties with a view to redressing decades of 'grievances', real, and imagined (the latter, for the most part, frankly), in favour of that same particular football club; and where the rump of officials are, manifestly, no' very guid. Here is the piece, for your interest: We appear to be entering the post-truth era of refereeing By blindly backing officials who overlook foul play such as Virgil van Dijk for Liverpool against Crystal Palace, the Premier League is complicit in a charade that is undermining the game Martin Samuel Monday October 07 2024, 7.00am, The Times We appear to be entering the post-truth era of refereeing (thetimes.com) Everyone was smiling as the Liverpool defender Virgil van Dijk received his man-of-the-match award on Saturday. Jules Breach, TNT Sports’ post-match interviewer, beamed, Van Dijk grinned happily, as did his team-mate Cody Gakpo by his side. “Congrats, brother,” Gakpo said as he handed over the prize. And no one mentioned the penalty. Would Van Dijk have been deemed the game’s star turn had Simon Hooper, the referee, correctly identified his tug on Crystal Palace’s Marc Guéhi in the 71st minute? Would he have been man of the match had Palace then scored from the spot and held on for the draw, with Liverpool dropping to third place only a few hours later, after Arsenal and Manchester City had won? For that is what could, and maybe should, have happened. Liverpool were better than Palace and might have run out winners anyway, but the point is: we’ll never know. Once again the match officials failed to spot what was clear and obvious to most observers. But no matter. The Premier League has its own way of negotiating these moments now. It makes it up. The league, and the PGMOL (Professional Game Match Officials Ltd), look supporters and viewers in the eye and tell them that what they saw is not what happened at all. Premier League statements explaining contentious calls should come with those blue pills offered in The Matrix. Continue experiencing the illusion, people. There was no pull, there was no foul. Van Dijk was faultless. Look, here is his player-of-the-match award. And see how happy we all are. Referees make mistakes, and that’s fine. That’s football as it has always been. Calls are often subjective. A lot of decisions are just judgments, matters of opinion. All of this we accept. So Hooper didn’t think Van Dijk having two hands on Guéhi, pulling him backwards as he tried to attack the ball, was a foul. Yes, it’s frustrating, but unexceptional. David Coote, the VAR, must then have agreed, because he didn’t even suggest a check. And as exasperating as it is that two referees appear not to know the rules, it isn’t the first time this has happened. Coote was the official who also didn’t see the Manchester United centre half Lisandro Martínez’s two-footed lunge towards Daichi Kamada as a red card at Selhurst Park last month. The locals will be familiar with the standard of his work and of the leniency famous names and famous clubs often receive. In United’s game away to Aston Villa on Sunday, Marcus Rashford stayed on the pitch courtesy of Rob Jones, the referee, because instead of a second booking for a deliberate foul, he received an indulgent verbal reprimand. As Erik ten Hag swiftly took him off, United retained 11 men throughout too. Yet, back to Saturday’s game, and what appears to have changed this season is the way the league is now complicit in this pretence of competence. In rushing out statements to explain decisions that look controversial — or, to put it bluntly, wrong — it has committed to backing its officials, no matter the evidence. “The referee’s call of no penalty for the challenge by Van Dijk on Guéhi is checked and confirmed by VAR — deeming that the challenge was not sustained holding and had no impact on the play,” the league said. Feel the certainty in that statement. The unequivocal nature of its language. The Premier League’s justification for Van Dijk’s let-off against Palace beggars belief ASHLEY WESTERN/REX/COLORSPORT And now think about it. What is meant by “not sustained holding”? So — you can hold now? Is that what it is saying? Did anyone notice this rather important rule change? You can now just get hold of a player’s arm and impede his movement, as long as it is not sustained. And what is meant by sustained? Are we measuring in time, or distance? How long can a non-sustained hold last; or for how many strides? In a sport in which the explosion of speed is crucial, when even one second seems a decent hold time, this is a significant shift. Grab an Olympic sprinter by the arm as he comes out of the blocks and see what impact that has on his race — it’s no different for a centre forward, or any player trying to reach the ball. That’s why holding has always been a foul. As for having no impact on play, this is a body that struggles to spot a simple infringement in the penalty area but can, somehow, see the future. Yes, it would have been hard for Guéhi to get to Trevoh Chalobah’s pass, but we cannot say for certain that he would not have made it, or that his presence in the vicinity might not have forced a mistake out of Alisson in Liverpool’s goal. Instead the goalkeeper was allowed to collect the ball unchallenged. And that didn’t make a difference? We know this? The same thing happened when Chelsea visited West Ham United last month. Wesley Fofana seized the arm of Crysencio Summerville to stop him running. The foul began outside the area and continued inside, where Summerville fell. Samuel Barrott, the referee, waved it away, and Stuart Attwell, the VAR, described it as “fleeting”. This would appear to be another word for non-sustained holding. Yet, for the foul to start outside the area and continue inside, it must have been sustained across a yard or two. So will we now get a directive on this, so that defenders can work out how long they get to foul an opponent before the officials respond? It’s the not knowing that makes it so difficult. What is it? One, Mississippi? Two, Mississippi? Imagine conceding a penalty just because the defender wasn’t aware how long his legal foul could last? It used to be that English football played a version of the rules. That a level of physicality viewed as unacceptable abroad was permitted here. It was why some of our more robust players — such as Mark Hughes — encountered problems when signing for foreign clubs. Yet, this is new. The idea that holding — and with both hands in Van Dijk’s case — must be sustained to constitute foul play appears to be a Premier League invention. Either that or we have entered the post-truth era of refereeing. And neither is encouraging, frankly.

Some of his short range passing in the second half last night was shockingly bad. He misplaced passes to a teammate five or six yards away on at least three or four occasions.

Cerny is still rubbish. wearrasheepil

That ref is particularly bad for it, but only when its a team playing us. He doesn't afford us the same rules.

Pity Sunday night at the London Palladium wasn’t still on the Telly would have been better entertainment than served up at Ibrox last night another poor performance but at least we got the points.

I thought we started quicker and looked on the front foot much more than last week but it fizzled out and like Cammy said in the last post I dont know what the style is. We are missing a very big presence.

Both, I think. After our last three matches, I think twiddling my thumbs would be preferable to watching us. At least I could do it well on a consistent basis. I normally hate international breaks - not any more.

Sadly passed away at 73 now there was a bloke who could play football

Think back to last seasons SC final & Joe Hart getting a foul to deny Sima his goal. would that be ‘enough for a foul’ do u think? Or was the referee just a cheat?

I thought Cerny was having a decent game even up until he scored his first goal so was pleased he got another half-time. Souttar also played well in what was a rather uninspiring match.

To be fair, from where we sat, not too far from it, it didn't look that bad. We don't trust VAR and little wonder.

Almost an old style wing half - Greig, McKay - with an extra touch of skill. Every Cruyff should have a Neeskens.

I await Willie Collum's edict on shirt pulling with interest

It would be best if the opinion police had a checklist of criteria that ensured fans didn't give an opinion they didn't like. I could give Elon a call and we can see if he can silence any dissidents on twitter that want to criticise a player via AI. Everything that is not going well with our club will instantly vanish and trebles will appear from no where. 'If no one is allowed to criticise then there cant be any problems' - Plato 400 BC, on Facebook.

Fair point. The 'having a moan' comment was more in relation to a "FFS" shout at the match or criticising players, in a reasonable manner, on a Rangers forum, than some idiot telling Cerny he's a twat on Instagram. I actually stuck up for Cerny the other day. It's obvious he's a bit hit and miss (like pretty much every winger ever).

At one point he was skinned by the St Johnstone forward, and just gave up, didn't continue tracking. Its easy to work hard, but you have to actually do it.

Cerny the difference on a day when, again, we flattered to deceive. McCausland aside, that's the first time I remember when every player of our starting 11 was playing in their natural position, yet we still struggled against a poor team. Baffling substitutions as well. Souttar did well, Raskin too, Tav wasn't terrible. Cerny MoTM although still some way to atonement! 😂

Almost fell asleep during the endless substitutions and V.A.R. checks.

Cerny won us the game, and Souttar was best of the rest. There's been a big improvement in Souttar recently, which is great to see.

Bit unfair to label fans who pay to watch matches having a moan about a player who isn't playing well as 'sheeple'.

I enjoyed that .Well done to Cerny after the sheeple had turned on him. Bajrami with Hagi as back up is much better as the forward midfielder. Hopefully Lawrence is out long term as it might be the only thing that saves the manager.

I'm not convinced we'd get much for either of them in January.

Coming off the Lyon scudding on Thursday, last night was never going to be pretty. Job done and forget it. Next spell of games between International breaks will be interesting. We'll be visiting Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Olympiakos and Hampden for a semi final against Motherwell. Aberdeen's credentials will be fully tested against us and Celtic(X2). Celtic also have a challenging run of games.

Solid 3 points after a tough week, but a few big red flags. Some of our players just can’t handle two games a week – they don’t have the stamina. Guys like Diomande and Dessers are really struggling to keep up. Diomande, in particular, is a serious concern. We’ve spent a lot of money on him, but he’s only had one good game all season (Malmo). In most other matches, he’s been subbed either for poor performance or lack of fitness. Playing two games a week is the standard here. No point moaning about it. We want to challenge for a domestic treble and do well in Europe, right? Well, that means getting used to playing a lot of football and making sure the squad can handle it. We’ve got about 2.5 months of football left before the January transfer window opens. If we’re serious about competing this season, we should already be thinking about getting new signings in and deals done now. If we don’t get reinforcements in, I worry we’re not taking this season seriously at all. I’d even consider moving on high-value players like Dessers and Butland if the right opportunity comes up in the window. We need to trust our recruitment policy and believe we can replace them.

Another lacklustre performance against a very poor St Johnstone team. Once again, no sign of what style we are looking to play. Cerny gets pass marks for his two goals, Butland for a couple of saves but few others raised their performance levels to above mediocre.

First half was terrible, second half had chances but it had 0-0 written all over it from the first whistle. Man Utd have had Spurs, Porto and Villa in 7 days and not won a game, Ten Hag cant turn it around. But he is being clever in the media - it sounds like cryptic messages to the board by repeating what they said to him in the summer after talking to Tuchel - I.E "we are in it together" - yet the media dont see this and think he is just coming out with daft quotes. Tottenham throwing away a nice lead at Brighton.

Pretty poor stuff from the lads. Take the win and have a break from the tripe that we're served up. Nothing else to say really.

I like what i've seen so far of Kasanwirjo , theres a bit of bite about him ,almost scored a belter too.