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Thank Christ we won't be in the CL proper with this side. One embarrassment is bad. Another six would be horrific.

The acceptance of second best and mediocrity amongst some of our support is rather concerning. Watch PSV do very little in the CL.

Schooled. Failed. I could take that, if I thought that lessons would be learned. They won't.

A Veerman OG in the 89th minute that send us through would top 55 for me

We are essentially the same side that Gerrard left. Some different players, form sometimes up, sometimes down, but the football is essentially the same and progress virtually non-existent. For a manager who likes to talk so much, have you ever heard Beale say out loud where we're going as a team or what the football will look like when we get there. I sure hope it includes being able to retain possession of the ball for more that five seconds.

We returned to the top flight seven years ago. Out of a total of 21 trophies, we have won a grand total of 2.

Some fans need to get a grip FFS. Sunday was always going to be the most important game of this week. Tonight was hugely disappointing but IMO they are a CL level team and we are a team in trying to find an identity. They were dramatically better than last year and have a hugely experienced coach. I get the rewards and status attached to the CL but is it worth getting spanked 6 times for a little bit more cash? Tonight was too soon for this team and it was always going to be.

As i've said before, I think most fans would accept that we may not be ready this season and clearly we're not. However, the level of performance is concerning. We may not even be ready for a domestic title. Sunday will be equally as tough.

Matondo could definitely be a great player for us. Im just going to say, after seeing this collapse I'm remembering how much I hated the group stage games last season, the silver lining is that we hopefully won't have to witness that. This team is not ready for the CL.

I'm not convinced about that. They definitely have a better manager though.

Tonight is showing just how important it is to win the league. If we don't, we'll continually have to play teams better than us just to qualify for CL.

Ancient wisdom has it that, on the evening of a blue moon, the flow of juju is especially powerful, and those who have attained mastery can shape destiny, particularly if they have some cool GIFs to post.

Btw, that was a catastrophically poor midfield performance this evening.

Sort of. But the fact is we could see their pedigree before they signed so there were, rightly, questions asked. Buying goal scorers with no proven goal scoring records. FFS Pedro's recruitment of forwards was better than this.

I’m very concerned that we seem to have sold an effective, if a little blunt, striker and replaced him with 3 strikers who seem unable to do much at all. Sure, it’s early days but I’m still wondering what Dessers does that is so great, and I have no idea what the attraction of Lammers was.

Ach, I was just in the middle of typing a similar point, but you've saved me from posting it - your version is a little more concise anyway. All I would add is that Beale's recruitment hasn't lit the heather in fire, although I am thankful for Jack Butland (who may have saved us from a 10-1 spanking). I hear about Beale being backed in the transfer window. But a net zero investment suggests otherwise. I think the board are short changing us to be frank. If they want CL riches, then invest in a team that can deliver that. We got lucky last year. I don't hold out much hope for domestic trophies (edit: apart from the League Cup, thanks to Kilmarnock) and dare I say, if we fail to win that, Beale can take himself and his new buddies and go.

The usual spectrum of reactions to another humiliation in Europe. Some wanting to trivialise the defeat and quickly move beyond it, some seeing the end of the world in every goal we lose. It was always thus and I suppose it just reflects the different ways people try to cope with disappointment. What's perhaps less emotional is the realisation that after a raft of close season signings, a rake of pre-season friendlies and now several competitive games, we simply haven't brought any discernible change to the football we play or significantly addressed our long-standing weaknesses. If anyone knows where Beale is taking us or whether there's a cat's chance in hell of ever getting there, please lift my gloom by sharing it with me. I appreciate PSV have a far bigger budget than us but I'm not sure I can even see any progress against the likes of Ross County or Livingston and any optimism I had about seeing off Celtic for the title is currently hanging by an uncertain thread. Something is far from right and nothing I'm seeing from players or manager suggests a season of different outcomes. We seem marooned in mediocrity.

Indeed. He keeps making bizarre decisions.

We don’t dominate domestically nowadays

My grip is fine. If they'd been a bit more clinical, that would've been about 8-1. We were shite. No shape, no fight, no nothing. Accepting that crap doesn't help Rangers.

I might be in the minority, but Sundays game was always bigger than tonight's. We are not CL material. We bank money for dropping into EL and go in as top seeds (IIRC).

Said before a ball was kicked, shows the importance of winning the league. That's out priority.

No but losing 5 goals wasn’t in the picture either.

Mmmmmmmmm, a lady-line up ...

Both Jack and Lundstram in the same midfield hardly ever works.

Some of us are going through the ritual of reverse Juju. We're getting pumped.

Surprised by the amount of people who think we'll get pumped on here, we don't generally get beatings in Europe (last seasons ucl aside). Just go out and leave everything on the pitch lads.

Butland is the only Ger who gets pass marks tonight, and saved us from a crazy scoreline.

I don't disagree with a lot of these points, but surely there are valid criticisms to be made? (If we're looking for an identity after 9 months (MB tenure), that's quite damning.) Putting our heads in the sand and saying, 'well—they're a CL side, so we've no chance' is pointless. It's up to the club to get the best out of the resources we have. I don't think we're doing that.

Was it tactics/formation or the midfielders playing poorly though? I'd say about 70/30.

Stop making excuses. There are valid criticisms to be made. "Dealing in freebies"? We just spent £15M on new forwards and our goal came from a RB. "Win on Sunday"? How? We're playing a CL team. They just have all the money. They sold a player for £25M. They have better players. We need to open our eyes and get a grip! (This is sarcasm.) Just pointing out the inconsistencies, here.

Besides, it's not a question of criticising signing targets. It's about judging what they do on the field of play. The proof of the pudding .....

Normally, I'd say you're being a bit reactionary but I'm really not seeing anything positive about Beale. It's just a continuation of the failure we've endured since 55.

We have spent about 12 million on strikers and none of them got in the team last week ahead of Roofe, who in some twist of fate looks fitter and more match sharp than the other 3.

Quite a few did actually

You can but it’s frowned upon.

That's it. Regardless of whether we get too negative or want to remain positive, the evidence is there for us - it's quite concerning. We aren't playing particularly well, we are repeatedly making the same mistakes, we rarely hammer lesser teams, rarely win trophies and there's no real sign of improvement.

Sunday is our focus but managers live or die by their track record. Our managers track record is questionable. It can be turned round and improved dramatically on Sunday, but it can also be compounded.

No, losing two massive cup games to Celtic and being behind in the league already means we haven’t done well domestically. Let’s hope for a change in fortunes moving forward.

We are uncomfortable in all areas of play, in or out of possession. We have spent a big chunk of change for us, and don’t look any better than we did last season. And our big summer signing for 6 million can’t get in the team.

Get a grip! we are dealing in freebies! it's just a fact, you have to accept facts. The days of old are gone for ever. Let's just win on Sunday

Why? head and shoulders above us in both ties! open your eyes man!. It's a good thing really, after our last venture into the CL!. EL is our limit. Just win on Sunday

Wheels truly off the Beale bandwagon

Don't mind losing but collapsing like this isn't great ahead of Sunday.

Rookie defending has made this embarrassing when it should have been tight. But it has to be said they are clearly a better all round team and players and it’s simplistic to completely blame the defence.

I think Lundstram has been our best midfielder - Raskin is continually allowing people to run off him whilst Cifu is again decent on the ball but appears disinterested in doing anything over a stroll.

Not got much to work with, to be fair to him.

It went through the net with Weslh ferocity & velocity

Did you not watch our run to the final of the Mickey Mouse League two years ago? Or did you not give a Donald Duck?

We're playing in the Champions League qualifiers - it's the exact opposite of a 'Mickey Mouse tournament'.