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I suspect them turning down the smaller allocation is a prelude to them trying to get a bigger one. Two rules we should abide by: 1. Never trust a yahoo. 2. Give them nothing.

I'm a wee bit surprised Dinamo Zagreb haven't been kicked out of Europe after their fans travelled to Athens and killed an AEK fan last week (they did this despite a ban on away fans).

It's all about opinions and mine is that Hagi is fundamentally a better talent than anyone he's currently competing with for a starting place. My only doubt was how he would come back from injury but there doesn't seem to be any problem there. I think it would be a disaster if he was sidelined.

I agree with you, except where Hagi is concerned. IMO he’s one of the few genuine talents at the club and we’re in danger of losing him if we don’t give him a route back.

Indeed. Moreover, it depends on what competition they will play in. Club Bruges: Over-performed massively in Europe last year - came 2nd in CL groups with 11 points, but came undone in round of 16. This year they are playing to qualify for the Europe Conf. Groups already 5-1 up from first leg. They could go quite deep in that competition, our biggest threat. Dinamo Zagreb: Like us, in the CL qualifiers. They are 2-1 down from 1st leg (home) against AEK Athens. We should probably hope they make it to the CL, where points will be tougher to come by, but looks like they may also drop into the EL Groups. They played in CL last season and took a gallant 4 points though, but came last. No EL fall-back. Shakhtar Donetsk: As winners of the UPL, they were straight into the CL groups. They managed 6 points in the CL group stage last season and dropped to the EL where they failed at round of 16. A big threat, if they again do well in the CL and drop to the EL, but they are also the furthest behind on current points.

I'm on the fence about what we do here. In reality, we have the players/squad to rotate the full 11 and still should win fairly comfortably, but, its a new team, so some consistancy in selection is needed. We also have PSV on the Tuesday so some players should be rested.... Personally, players I definitely want to see playing are Ridvan(if available), Sterling, Dessers and Hagi. Cifuentes is basically in the middle of a season so doesn't need game time. Cantwell was a late fitness test recently and can probably be rested. Dessers needs gametime if he's still not 'match fit' and hopefully a confidence boost of a goal or two. Wholesale changes in a team thats already still gelling/building though is not neccessarily something that would be advised so definitely will be interesting to see what team starts and may tell some stories about peoples positions in the squad...

beats men all the time to get crosses in. Do we really want our full backs trying to skin men on the half way line when no one is behind them. Definitely not and it doesn't happen elsewhere or previously. been our best player this season so far. certainly top 3.

It's pure conjecture on my part, I've no inside information or anything. I don't think football can or will continue in it's current form. The financial gulf between a handful of clubs and everyone else is growing. So either the bubble bursts, and there's no sign of that happening, or the structure changes. The changes to the Champion's League coming next season (I think?) are the start of a proper European League, and a sop to the clubs who looked at breaking away to form a Super League a year or so ago. The rich and powerful clubs want change and they usually get what they want in the end. It also wouldn't be a huge surprise if Saudi sides started looking for a bit of international club football. Look what happened in golf, they are wealthy enough to do almost anything. There's a turf war between UEFA and FIFA too. Perhaps a Saudi funded international club competition might get FIFA backing, as long as the right people are looked after. Whatever happens it's not sustainable for us to remain playing in Scotland. On the opening day of the season Celtic played Ross County. County's entire turnover is less than the Celtic manager's annual salary. How can they compete? It simply leads to negative football where clubs play for a draw at best and no one wants to watch that. We're not alone, around 10 leagues in Europe face similar issues and they all have a vote at UEFA and FIFA. A change to the league set up is inevitable I feel, and I think it'll come sooner rather than later.

Hopefully young Lowry gets a start at a packed Tynecastle tonight, will be good for his development. Sportscene 19.30 if anyone wants to see how he does.

Tamundo - Running gag - OK. Tav - short for Tavernier, fine. Shifu (after the Kung-Fu Panda character) and a variation of Cifu - trying to spread it myself - fine. BUT McRORIE IS NOT HIS NAME! It's McCrorie. McCrorie!

Poor mans Cantwell.

There is no conundrum, Barasic is the best left back at the club, hence he plays more than Ridvan. For whatever reason, Ridvan hasn't settled here and / or is continually injured. I hear Borna being described as a "shit bag", but at least he is available for selection. So far this season Borna has assisted Dessers goal in the 1st leg, Tav's goal in the 2nd leg last night and Danilo's all important goal on Saturday. Most importantly, he's played well in all those games. As someone said previously in the thread, if Borna, or anyone in our squad for that matter, was a "complete" player they wouldn't be playing for Rangers. Until we sign a better player than Borna, he is our left back. Its really that simple.

Asking the SPFL for help in a dispute v Celtic is like asking rose for help catching Fred West.

As this new season has slowly progressed, much has been made of this current squad of players and what formation we should be playing to ensure we get the best out of them. Despite the influx of new blood, much of the debate has unsurprisingly focused on two senior members of the squad, Tavernier and Barasic, due to their Jekyll and Hyde starts to the season. Further questions about our narrow shape and lack of width have have also been reinforced by Tuesdays events in Geneva. This has got me thinking of how to get the best qualities of Tav and Borna working to our advantage whilst ensuring that we are providing cover for our central defenders. It seems Beale is curious about the possibilities of a playing a back 3 as he has utilised a deep lying midfielder dropping in there on occasions. He has also further teased this idea with Sterling's recent cameos appearances against Livingston and Servette. Does anyone see this as a long term concern? I could see this working for games against Celtic and games in Europe. On the graphic attached players could be swapped like for like (Roofe for Dessers, Ridvan for Borna etc.) IMO it provides cover for our back line and would ask less of Tav and Borna during games. Both are at the stage of their career where they cannot do both jobs to a good enough level. A 3 also gives Souttar more licence to step forward and use the ball. I know they are on a different level but look at what Stones does for Man City. It also allow us to play a higher press which (I feel we will have to do against PSV and Celtic). Thoughts?

John Mason is worse than a rat.

I expected, or at least I wanted, much better from Ridvan Yilmaz. I wanted him to be the solution to the seemingly inevitable crises of confidence that routinely afflict Borna Barisic and a remedy for the Croatian's often headless-chicken brand of defending. I wanted all that but I think, if we're honest, we're now very unlikely to get it from the young Turk. However, asserting (probably rightly) that Barisic is the better of the two options does nothing to address a fundamental weakness in our defence, one that too often has cost us dearly. All it does is lock it in. So Barisic will keep the shirt. It would be a pity to think he deserved it.

I heard some naughty words from the terraces while watching Club Brugge and Shakhtar Donetsk (shut up - I watch them!). Someone should inform Gianni Infantino. For the good of the game. We don't need these teams in European football for the next two seasons ... or whenever the Club World Cup starts.

Well done Fingers are crossed for PSV.

My tupence worth. XG is a well designed way to describe what a players current capability is, or what his previous perfomance levels have been concerning taking chances. The problem with this is that "fans" see other aspects of players such as style and character and project that into our expectation or memory. That causes an uncomfortable difference between our opinion of a player and his XG.

The irony is we are showing up better in Europe now than we did when we had these guys. We got to a European final with a team that cost about 14 million. Roofe and Kent made up most of that. That would have bought a couple of players under Advocaat. Funny old game.

Only very marginally less - the convoluted points system is explained here: https://kassiesa.net/uefa/calc.html The chances are they'll score higher than they would if they were in the Europa. I'd be surprised if they didn't progress through at least a couple of rounds of the knockout stages. So the buggers have probably the best chance of any team of catching us.

I don't disagree, but I want to play devil's advocate for a moment. Does a third tier club get to a European Elite 2nd tier competition final? Maybe it was just an unexplainable blip, or an overachievement by a team with an exceptional manager and tactical display, who we then sack when the team drops back to a more realistic level. We, fans, can moan and groan all we like, as you say it's part of being a Rangers' fan and the heavy expectations that come with that, but the decision makers can't be jumping from the frying pan to the fire every time the fans get restless because our performances are only equal to the investment and ambition of the people that run the club.

Whether they catch up with us may well depend upon what competition we end up in.

Just another wee side note regarding the progress of our new signings. It's clear to see Dessers/Danilo are not up to speed yet and I've seen some mention of how they compare to Celtics Japanese signings a few seasons ago. It's worth noting that Kyogo came to Celtic in the middle of a J League season so was already in tip top condition. Hatate came in at the end of a J League season so once again was fully up to speed. From our point of view, you can already see Cifuentes is relatively up to speed as he has came in the middle of a MSL season.

I'm not sure that is true. Bassey looked competent when he first made the team, I'm not sure any of us thought he'd go stellar on first viewing, but he looked a more than able back up. Bassey was 20 when he broke into our first team with no previous first team experience, Ridvan is 22 now with over 70 first team appearances and 6 international caps. Whatever ability he must have been showing a few seasons ago he's lost it in Glasgow. I'm not writing him off, I'm just arguing that currently Borna is the best left back at the club, Ridvan has demonstrated nothing in his appearances to suggest he should get the jersey ahead of Barasic. Best case scenario for me is we find a Turkish or Saudi team willing to take Ridvan and pay us what we spent on him and we find another young left back to challenge Borna.

This video (from 0.54 to about 5.10 - then it focuses on David Silva) covers some of the principles employed by Real Sociedad last season in their 4-4-2 diamond: Directness 3rd man Overloads I think we see hints of each in our play (except for overloads - we don't use them very well at all), but it's not fully developed as yet. I am a big fan of the formation: it can be very entertaining, fast and direct. Defensively it's quite good, too. You can easily block off the middle, directing teams wide and cleaning up the crosses, etc. Or press them and direct them wide and overload them, then counter. We saw the former used by Gerrard against Rogers and he had him sussed. I think the video clearly explains some of the principles we'll need to employ to get the best out of the diamond formation. If you're interested, give it a watch.

Has always been this way. If you could have combined the Kenny Miller and Kris Boyd you'd have had a world class player. As individuals, they were very good players, but of they were comete players, they wouldn't have been at Rangers. What we have to do is try and pick players who could become complete players, players who've "lost their way" and hope they capture their MoJo at Rangers and we can sell them on for a profit. Ridvan was a gamble and its one that's backfired. He hasn't settled, he can't gey a run in team.as he's continually injured and when he has played, he hasn't shown anything to suggest he could be a longterm solution to our left back position. Borna has faults, but at this time he is the best we have for the LB position.

What Celtic will get is the same as every other visiting club. What Celtic chose to decline is their own business. Bisgrove knows giving them the entire Broomloan stand will cause an uproar to make his Sydney fuck up look like a mild complaint.

I read as far as "Gers were desperate ..."

As long as Barasic and Tavernier are our full backs and remember folks they just can't defend we will struggle to win anything the manager must know this and it will be his downfall .

Why are we asking the SPFL to intervene? Reading the quoted rule, they (SPFL) could decide to give them a bigger allocation, or am I reading it wrong?

That's why I put Souttar in the middle. Not seen much of Sterling but Souttar is strong at moving the ball out of the back IMO.

I like that. Perhaps swap Sterling for Souttar? Big John is pretty good at getting forward/delivery. But yeah, that rocks.

I think Balogun will get a fair amount of game time. Beale also likes Roofe, so I think he'll get time to get him match fit, to provide options up front. I don't see where Hagi fits in and I wouldn't be surprised if his time is coming to an end. However, we have to play Sterling. Unless he's really poor in training or attitude (which i don't believe to be the case), he must be given chances to challenge Tav. If Beale is not prepared to rotate RB now and again, what was the point in recruiting him. It will be interesting to see the line-up, because if Morton is not the right opportunity, then there isn't one. If Tav gets injured and he's forced play, without match fitness or familiarity with the players around him, it would be a foolish situation....repeating itself.

Is a reason for that the demographic at the stadium? I'm 26 and whenever I'm at Ibrox I feel young, the average age at our place must be touching 40. In Europe and I'm guessing the Balkan groups the vast majority would be male and young as well. It's probably led to the atmospheres dying in the UK to be honest, saw something that said the average crowd age has basically grown older with the teenage/young adult generation in the 90's, basically post Taylor Report. But then I'm not getting shivved waiting for a steak pie so I can't complain ha.

Nutters mate, hopefully there's no trouble for our fans over in Holland because they've got that streak in them. Love football but I wouldn't kill for it.

An AWFUL lot of work needed for a guy we allegedly paid 4-5 million for.

Aye I agree with that, they've lost a lot of experience though so it can't be a bad thing as long as he's fit.

I am also torn. With regards to potential money earned, I've seen 25 million mention. Is that overall prize money for the tournament or what we could potentially earn? I'll email Gianni Infantino...

Just a wee correction WBD. Zagreb actually lost their 2-1 in the first leg at home so might struggle to qualify.

You're right, if Ridvan had only done those things during his Rangers career we'd all love him. But he hasn't, so, you know.

I mean, xG does describe players, teams and matches quite accurately over the season, so whether you buy into it or not is irrelevant - it works. xG does take into account game context - off the top of my head, it takes into account 35 contextual variables. For xG to be meaningful, it has to describe all-comers, to use your term. Then you can compare how players and teams are performing to the statistical average.

I underlined what you said, and add to that players that are at the early stage in their careers who could become complete while playing for us - Ridvan was probably that gamble. Either we think he still can be or we need to cut our losses and look again.

It was John. And I don't necessarily disagree, but what we're essentially saying is that we can't afford players that can perform everything we need of them. Therefore, why are we slating them all the time? Would we also accept that Danilo or Dessers or Lammers will miss sitters in big games (Sakala likewise), because if they had the consistency to perform under pressure, when needed, they wouldn't be playing for us? I'm not so sure.

Get a room, lads. Bring back a more contentious debate, like xG.

I now David Silva is a Worldy, and there is no comparison, but this is the kind of role I thought Hagi could pull off for us.

3 assists in 3 games.

Oh for a player like David Silva. He was a wee magician.

Barasic's crossing is the best in the league and he showed again last night, with our goal, just how important that can be. Along with his willingness to overlap and attack the final third those are his strengths. As long as we play to those strengths then he's an asset to the club. If he was great defensively then he wouldn't be playing for Rangers, he'd be in Spain or England, the harsh truth is none of our defenders are top class. All have failings, Souttar was at fault for the goal, Goldson had some shaky moments, and half of our support think Tav is past it, apparently. The only way we're going to get a top class defender is if he's at the very beginning of his career or the very end. Personally I'd be happy to keep Barasic. He's the best left back at the club, but if we can bring in a better one I wouldn't shed a tear if he moved on. Ridvan isn't better, no matter how many might wish he was. Robbie Fraser doesn't look like he's going to make it with us.