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Couldn't face posting last night when I got back from the game. Bloody hell... Other than the total collapse, and I might be the only one who sees it like this, but other than #55, I'm still seeing many of the same issues which have existed since Gerrard came in. Obviously Gerrard oversaw a significant rebuild, but from then, until he left, there were issues which went unresolved and some are still there under Gio. And BTW, I'll forever be grateful for SG for delivering title 55, but with every passing match, his reputation as this perfect manager seems to be growing and growing. Let's not forget just how few trophies he won with us and the fact he left after a rubbish start to the season where he seemed unable to shake our players from some deep-seated lack of motivation and "can't be arsed". Some of these have been compounded by players ageing, not being replaced and some strange transfer oversights as well. But last night, it was like another "greatest hits" of these. McGregor's terrible distribution and being rooted to his line. Full backs' not tracking back and/or midfielders not dropping back to cover for them. Borna looked like he gave up on at least two occasions which resulted in a goal. Full backs who can get forward, but aren't necessarily great at the defensive side. Important in a modern day game or not? Its still costing us. Inability to defend set pieces, corners in particular. Certain players who seem to shit the bed in the really big games. Certain players seem to be undroppable - regardless of form; confidence. Balance in midfield has been an issue for as long as I can remember. I don't think Gio knows what system he wants us to play from game to game. He seems to rely on trial and error too much, sometimes with players being played out of position. Change the starting lineup, but system remains the same or not setup to play to the strength of those who've come in. Do we have a "plan b"? Why so slow and ponderous in some games, particularly in the league. We're also slow off the pitch when it comes to contracts - Kent and Morelos in to their last 8 months now? A presumably big contract for Goldson who is the most resilient player I've seen in a long time and great on his day, but at times is still very one-footed and prone to making poor decisions. Why so slow to make substitutions and react to what's going on? Some players, some of our most experienced players, seem unable to do the basics right. Especially in the bigger games. We still seem to be the unluckiest club around with injuries. See also going in to a Europa League final without a fit striker. See also, Ryan Jack. I love the guy, but how many times are we going to just keep persisting with him when every single season goes the same way? We also now look really unfit. So can't blame the injuries on over-training or the high-tempo system we play We still don't have a system where we can play two different, complimentary strikers occasionally. We still seem to have a midfield full of players who are too similar in their style of play and defensive leanings. Why are we still signing players for the squad when we now appear to have players coming through the ranks who are up to the job? Our transfer policy seems to have been poor at best. For a while, you could see that the quality of players we were signing was improving, but it seemed to plateau. Whether that's down to Ross Wilson, the management teams (who have gone on the record to say they're happy with the squad) or financial realities, we still seem to have ended up with a bloated, ageing squad with some players well past their best days. Some of the first team should have gone after 55. They should absolutely have gone after last season. So in short ?), that's why I was so pi$$ed-off last night, because its the same story I've seen play out time and time again for the last 3 or 4 years now.

I think Mrs Truss has a brighter future

Whatever the problem is he ain't the solution.

Playing at this level, we have to realise we'll be soundly beaten at times but it's the manner of the defeats, particularly in Amsterdam and last night, that are so frustrating. The CL is the pinnacle of football but some of our players don't look interested. Bizarre!

Last night was somewhat of a freak result (thanks Jurgen) but too many issues now remain prevalent and it appears increasingly obvious Gio cannot fix them. Is it the nuclear option to get rid now or the prudent one giving any new man a season to develop their own team/style? For many the answer will seem obvious but with an aging squad and apparently minimal cash to invest in it, can we really rely on wheeling and dealing to deliver success? Player trading model agreeable but who goes for big money in this current squad now? This shows the issues we have go beyond Gio. To allow three erstwhile key players/assets to move into their last year of contract is bad enough but no joined up thinking with regard to the squad's profile is stark (look at our midfield). Leadership seems missing throughout club. Finally it's fair not to overreact to a bad result. Just reaching the CL group stage was an achievement in a group many would find challenging. That's the only factor saving the manager right now and domestic improvement may be found. But, to me, he's a dead man walking. I'm genuinely not sure where we go from here. Someone has to be accountable for our inconsistent (at best) form this season, our team's lack of ability and awful squad planning. Board perhaps between a rock and a hard place but they cannot hide. This is THE key moment.

Ban them for what? Acting hard? Gesticulating? Walking towards opposition fans? Being a bit embarrassing? As much as it was a daft act, I don't think anyone should be banned for it. Hopefully they've noted the reaction and will be a bit less silly next time.

Repeatedly subbed off suggested an issue. Last night was his first full 90 minutes since the 15th of April. Who will be next ? Tav ?? He doesn't appear to be at 100% Playing through injuries is taking its toll. Longer periods out.

That backline would be the stuff of nightmares. Wouldn't be fair on King either. Saw a little of Mayo at Kilmarnock, not ready for us. Sands isn't a natural centre half. Both could be used if playing beside experience but all together, .... would work out badly.

Goldson will be a huge loss. Good opportunity for king though

To think we were famous for the iron curtain defence now its more like an old moth eaten bit of net curtain

“Haud me back” seems appropriate seeing this.

Humiliation has become common place under gio. Baffling team selections and the constant backing of under achievers and tactics that don't work are common place . We're a laughing stock now. It's heart breaking watching us now. A team without a spine.

Terrifying for Liverpool. Stewards and Police did a fantastic job. I hope there were dogs and horses on standby.

A wee reminder: wages aside ... we paid - 4,3m for Davies, who I would suggest will be playing most games - 3.6m for Ridvan, signed when Borna was essentially on the jump and people wanted him go anyway. Thankfully for Borna, he regained some form and good one at that. I for one wouldn't mind playing Ridvan in front of Borna, since he seems very adapt at attacking and defending too. - 2.7m for Matondo, who was meant to be the answer on the right wing, yet given not much game time to really settle in ... and, after all, he is a winger. - 2.25m for Colak, who made us forget Morelos ... but no matter whether it were those guys or someone else, or we had spent 20m more, we'd still be miles off from the teams we face in our group. Well, make that astronomical units. At this time, we also have 7 players out injured who could/would all contest as starting slot, and lost Goldson and Jack too. Obviously, you can ask for effort and all that, but you also have to keep in mind that the other teams, aside from their class, also can provide the same effort ... and them subs yesterday were clearly out to show Klopp that they should have been first choices. It is a very (football) Germany attitude to look primarily at oneself and not the opposition. Arrogance borne out of permanent success. Either "we" play good and deserve anything we get, or "we" played poorly. The opposition is always secondary. That is hardly objective and we shouldn't fall into that trap. Not least when the opposition is way above us. All the above doesn't mean that we just suck it up and be done with it. But as I noted in the previous post, we need to change and shift some personnel as well as use adequate tactics to develop as a team. We've come a long way from the 4th tier and as before, our way will never end. We're not driving in a Bentley like Liverpool as yet, but a fairly well equipped Rover. A decent Mercedes would be the next step, before we start thinking about Bentleys et al.

Thought he played very well first half but struggled in the second period. However, wasn't helped by a poor Barisic and no cover from midfield.

When was the last time Kent looked like one of our better players? I can't remember a MOTM performance from him or even a few games in a row where he's looked like one of our star players. He's either not as good as we suspected or has just been here too long and needs a new challenge (because of various different things).

I bet that this is really popular content on a Liverpool forum.

Agreed, generally poor recruitment, including some of the contract renewals. What got me was recruiting an injury prone centre half. Who if @craigis correct in saying he was brought in to replace Goldson (who looked to be leaving), means they must have been hoping for a Souttar/ Helander partnership. WTAF !!

Suppose the main thing you could say just now is the team would fail a M.O.T.

I don't think that our manager will change any time soon.

I agree, under Gerrard (and I think Gio initially benefitted from this) we played well above our weight. But now we can't even be a solid team anymore. We shouldn't be getting bowled over 7-1 at home to ANY team. Even Real Madrid or Barcelona.

How much we (dont) back our next manager. Who I have decided should be Allan McGregor. Give it Greigsy.

Agreed but it says a lot that we couldn't replace them. King has a bright future ahead of him and I was really disappointed by Tav's efforts to hep him through the game. And the decision to put Davis on - who really struggled last week at Anfield - was bizarre with Sands available who would at least be able to offer defensive cover.

Which one

Let’s be honest, many of us feared that was the case in the summer. Extending the contracts of older guys, hoping guys like Jack and Roofe could stay fit. Being relaxed about Kent and Morelos seeing out time. Holding on to Kamara when he clearly doesn’t want to be here. The goalkeeper situation. We are seeing it come to fruition in Europe. We have gotten by domestically but it’s a matter of time before it catches up with us given our schedule.

Yes but don’t put Kent on the other side

Goldson will be a big miss, it's lucky we have cover in Helander, that we bought Souttar, we have Balogun, have King to cover him effectively

It's worth noting that the two teams we eliminated from the CL qualifiers are both sitting pretty in the Europa: unbeaten, will both very probably progress beyond the group stage, and have a set of results we'd all be content with. Would Gio be getting it in the neck if we were in USG's current position in the Europa League? Would USG have fared any better than us if they were in our CL group? There's a gulf in prize money between CL and EL, but there's also a converse gulf in enjoyment that makes it barely worth it.

We all like to think our kid is smarter, our girl is prettier, and our teams are better than they really are. David Moyes.

Dinnae, Cammy - I'm depressed enough today.

An article from the time of GvB's appointment: WITH Giovanni van Bronckhorst confirmed as the new Rangers manager, excitement is through the roof amongst the Ibrox faithful following the return of their idol. The Dutchman enjoyed success as a manager at Feyenoord where he won the Eredivisie in 2017, the first time the title returned to Rotterdam in 18 years. He also claimed two Dutch Cups and two Dutch Super Cups during his four-year stint at De Kuip before an unsuccessful Covid-interrupted spell in China. We talked to Johan Brinkel from the popular Feyenoord supporters podcast Kein Geloel for an in-depth insight into what a Giovanni van Bronckhorst Rangers team may look like and what he will bring to Ibrox. His Feyenoord legacy “He’s regarded as a well-mannered and a good coach, we really like him. He’s such a nice guy and we’re hoping he’ll do well at Ibrox. “The results were very good at Feyenoord, we won the league for the first time in 18 years in 2017, he’s won the KNVB Cup twice, won the Super Cup twice so looking at just trophy-wise he was our most successful coach ever. "If you look at the football, that’s the big negative side. It was very predictable, not always as fun as we’d hoped. "He’s quite conservative as a coach but I think he’s good at managing guys, he doesn’t mind benching a big star if it’s necessary for the team.” Taking over and seeking help from a former Rangers boss “It’s quite funny because the year before he was appointed to be the head coach, he was assistant for two years before that under Ronald Koeman. We all thought the other assistant was going to be the head coach but Feyenoord decided van Bronckhorst was going to be the man so it was a big surprise when he was appointed. "When he took over, in the first part of the season he did really well. I think we were top of the league and we were thinking we could go for the title but after the winter break we collapsed so badly". "We lost seven times in a row which was a record for Feyenoord, we never did that before. “Dick Advocaat was called in to help Giovanni because our board thought that maybe van Bronckhorst was inexperienced and that he needs some help from a seasoned coach who knows how to do it when you lose so many games. “I think that helped him as at the end of the season in 2016 he won most of the matches and basically he went from that moment forward. “We got a new striker, Nicolai Jorgensen from Denmark, we got a new goalie because our first choice goalie was injured and basically everything clicked. “I still don’t think we had the best team in Holland that season but of all the players we had, around 14/15 players who all played, they outperformed on their regular skill. “Guys that were decent became excellent so we had an excellent season in which from the first day till the last day, we were top of the table and of course Gio is part of that.” Style of play "He was our coach for four years, in those four years I only remember that he played a different system once. “That was in the Champions League when we were facing Manchester City that he decided to play five defenders instead of four but it didn’t help because we lost 4-0. "I don’t recall any other games that he was playing a different system. He really likes to play a 4-3-3. "When we talk about van Bronckhorst we always say ‘The Horseshoe’ because what he always did, that irritated fans so badly, was the left-back played it to the centre back, the centre back played it to the other centre back and the centre back played it to the right back and then the other way around so it was quite predictable. “Teams figured out if you basically stopped our midfielders from being part of the game, Feyenoord doesn’t know what to do. Even though we had better teams from 2017 onwards, we didn’t become champions anymore, we didn’t play a role in the championship whatsoever. We won the cup in 2018 but the best season was the 2016-17 season when we became champions. “We sold a couple of guys and the guys we got in weren’t that good so the money we spent was not well spent. They basically stopped developing and got worse so he never replicated that fantastic magic season in 2017.” On leaving Feyenoord “I think most of the fans were quite happy when he left. “Four years in football is a long time so we do like the fact that he wasn’t fired, he left through the front door. “Everybody said, ‘Ok, we respect you, so let’s finish this together’, even though, especially in his last season the football was terrible and the performances weren’t good.

Entropy, entropy, they've all got it, entropy. And I was going to offer them that old drawing board in the garage. (Pro bono Populi.) We have a manager who looks increasingly unlikely to progress the team, and, you say, a board which is unlikely to progress that manager through the door. A lose-lose situation, which will end in departures, recrimination, and, crucially, the next window being -what?- 10 weeks away, with valuable time lost.

He cant come back until January when the window opens iirc

Having to carry the backline is certain defeat.

Prepare for Lundstram at LCB beside King and an empty midfield 🤦‍♀️

All clubs support have idiots and we are no different.

If that is the UB, then they'll need a brass neck to make further requests of the club regards seating.

Can see us struggling big time if thats true

Yes, but we didn't and after the sales we made last year and reaching the Europa League final and the money generated by that we should have. Aside from Colak and Lawrence we blew good money on projects that can barely get off the bench and did not spend enough to buy first team quality where we really needed it, ACM and RW.

I think the board were right with the infrastructure, including Youth development but the football department haven't spent their budget well. Time to have pushed the boat out slightly IMO was after 55, ie. built on success.

This is obvious, Parkhead was the same. Easter Road was the same. Not just in the CL. Something has triggered this. We put USG to bed in a great performance. Put a good PSV side away then as a team have just fizzled out.

When you down tools against a better team, who then bring on Salah and Thiago, you're going to get hammered.

We used to have 4 or 5 captains in any given starting 11, now we've got too many players who either go missing from injury half the time, or, have some how got into their 20's and not even played 100 games for a first team of any note.

Scary to think Napoli at home, put Eight goals past Ajax and Liverpool. Ten past Ajax over the two games. Spalletti has them playing some amazing football.

Oh right, so now we need the whole of football to be restructured. Not just a switch of association. You are switching from one fantasy to another. Go compare our revenue five years ago to our revenue today.

I droned on about it most of the summer, it was obvious. That is why you really have to wonder at squad management responsibility and hold it accountable.

That’s why they went after it.

If you like your football dull and dreich like the Scottish weather then Gio's yor man but I would like to see an all out attacking team instead of all this shuffling the ball sideways and backwards. Up and at them for the full game never let up

So much doom and gloom! Have you not read the other thread - we've fixed the roof! I'm getting bored of repeating myself: I don't think we need a major rebuild, or "transition" and "upheaval", because, as I've said, the squad is fine (albeit with glaring gaps and issues). Sort the manager out, and everything else falls into place. An "exceptional managerial appointment"? I find this funny. It would only be an "exceptional appointment" because you think we need some miracle to correct all the endless issues that are wrong with the club, which compound year-on-year because we don't get a CL spot. That's a bit extreme...