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We've had our say about what the players served up at Parkhead but for me the mentality oF players, staff and supporters alike should have been governed by pragmatism rather than tribalism. While victory at Celtic would have been perfect, the priority for Rangers yesterday wasn't to win but to avoid defeat and the team should have been set up with that in mind. Midfield in particular should have been selected to dominate possession and to deny them time and space. The time to be more progressive was if we were still in the game after an hour. The number of fans calling for a gung-ho attacking formation was very hard to understand and hints at a conceit that expects every season to unfold like last season. What really worries me is I suspect some players have the same poor grasp on reality as exhibited by certain fans. Everyone connected with Rangers need to lose all thoughts of last season, accept they've just been outplayed and humiliated, then decide whether they've got the personal courage to claw their way out of this. I know at the outset that there are some in this squad who won't be up to it and unless our manager is prepared to show some teeth there well may be others who will prefer denial to redemption. No more Mr Nice Gio please.

If 2022 could have started any worse for Rangers fans, then I think only avoiding defeat against Stirling Albion in the Scottish Cup counts. Draws away to Aberdeen and Ross County and our long unbeaten run blown into smithereens with as bad a performance as we’ve seen at Parkhead in many a year means not only have we dropped seven points in the four league games this year, we’ve now surrendered our position at the top of the table to Celtic as well. What has gone wrong? I’d imagine we’d all have our own opinions on that – personnel wise at least. However the bringing forward of the winter break is arguably the biggest factor. Yes, we weren’t exactly firing on all cylinders through December but we did win all six league games and only Lyon managed to score against us in the Europa League. Meanwhile key players like Morelos and Kent seemed to be finding some much-needed form, confidence was high and we were going into games with Aberdeen and Celtic as favourites. The three week break stopped that momentum and it’s fair to say we’ve not got going again since. Nevertheless, the break cannot be used as excuse – quite the opposite in fact. For one thing, when Gio arrived in late November, fans were worried he’d not have time to bed in with a tricky run of games in December. However, the Dutchman started well and his ‘keep the zero’ mantra as well as scoring more goals meant our form was healthy. Yes, a premature break was disagreeable but it allowed us to regroup, get injured players fit and work on tactics under the new manager. One or two players were going to be missing through international duties but there’s something far wrong if a 26-man squad can’t cope with the loss of a few players. Unfortunately, struggle we have and the loss of confidence right through the side appears stark in the last week or two. From the goalkeeper, through the defence, midfield and attack, it’s difficult to point to any player and say they’ve turned up in 2022. McGregor had a nightmare in Dingwall, the full backs were appalling at Parkhead, the centre backs seem unable to communicate, our midfield is non-existent, our wingers rarely beat their man and our strikers lack presence. All in all, if there is a system to speak of it’s not working. We carry a minimal threat and ‘keep the zero’ seems to have instilled a defensive mindset in periods of matches that is now difficult to shake off. Last night’s game at Parkhead summed much of these criticisms up. The starting XI was one many supporters (yours truly included) predicted and wanted. It was a strong line-up, one with attacking intent and a defence more than capable of providing the platform. Yet, almost immediately Celtic forced us back and it quickly became evident, we could not contain our hosts. Worse, as is becoming a habit this year so far, it was very difficult to suggest a Rangers player that did their job. Substitutes Ryan Jack and Leon Balogun undoubtedly steadied the ship but, by that time, Celtic players were smoking cigars. In retrospect, it’s easy to criticise our starting line-up and I’m happy to concede I under-estimated the opposition. If we had to contain Celtic in the first half, then a double-pivot should have been deployed but, if not, why were so many players incapable of following instruction? Celtic could have driven a bus through either flank and, even when we did get the ball, in possession we were so weak – mentally and physically – it was obvious we didn’t believe in our own abilities. So much so, waiting until half-time to make changes resulted in the game being out of our reach by the time the whistle did go. What now for the team? Well, that’s a very difficult question to answer. It’s fair to say the honeymoon period for the manager is now well and truly over. But, it’s also fair to say, all is not lost yet and that must be the mindset going forward, even if our next two matches against Hearts and Hibs won’t be easy. With both games at home and the return of the hugely missed Alfredo Morelos, the Rangers camp simply must remain positive over the next week in particular. Yes, losing our place at the top of table hurts but everyone, from the manager to the players and supporters should use that hurt, that palpable pain of an Old Firm humbling, to turn things around. Of course that can be easier said than done so it will be interesting to see how the manager achieves it. Does he change his system back to something more familiar to the players? Does he make wholesale changes to his personnel and, if so, who is dropped? And, who among the squad will show the leadership qualities required to change our fortunes? One thing is for sure these players are capable. Right through the squad, we have more than enough talent to win us games and many of them demonstrated this last season. The addition of Aaron Ramsey will help and, whilst Amad Diallo had a dreadful evening against Celtic, he won’t be the last to do that. Both come with impressive reputations but their profile won’t be enough to deliver results. Effort, humility and teamwork will also be required and that goes for all of the existing squad. The winning of league title 55 is still fresh in the memory for many of us and shows what remains possible for this group of players. Delivering a 56th title will now be much more difficult but that challenge should be something successful players crave and face head-on. The next few weeks will show if last season was a one-off and if a genuine winning mentality is something we can rely on at Rangers. At this point I could conclude with a suitable Bill Struth quote but I’d rather Gio and his team made their own history. I cannot wait to get back to Ibrox on Sunday afternoon – I hope the players are making their way onto the training pitch today with the same hunger, determination and belief.

Amid the carnage of last night I think a small recognition is due for the way Calvin Bassey responded to being removed from his makeshift role in central defence, where he has struggled a bit, and showed good spirit and some skill in his true position at left back. In future, if injuries again plague our central defenders, we need a different stopgap solution. Sands presumably.

Agreed. Despite Celtic tiring and allowing us more possession/territory he and Balogun's presence did contribute to more comfort on and off the ball. They should be the first names on the team sheet for Sunday.

I would like to say, I think we may be going overboard with the criticisms of GvB. I think we need to be more specific in what we are criticising. He made some changes that improved us. The FB's were played deeper, giving us more protection and solving a major concern at the time. Barisic, at least initially, suited that and performed well. Also, utilising wingers as opposed to two #10s was a good change, providing attacking impetus. I think we were all on board with that, weren't we? The pitchforks are always out after dropped points. I think we were okay against Ross County (after 35 mins, anyway), but three howlers cost us. GvB is not at fault for that. Last night it seems to be the passivity of the plan that was at fault; soak up pressure and counter. That plan did work against Hibs and Hearts, away--although last night is a different animal. I don't think it's a bad plan in itself. The execution of the plan clearly didn't work -- I suppose he thought that himself with the triple subs, or was that a result of the quick-fire goals before half-time? We maybe need to commit to the counter (double pivot etc.), or show more ambition and press, and then get into a possession-based game. This is where my thoughts run out. I don't know the solution.

So we now have the same set of players underperforming with two different managers and tactics. As much as we've conceded a lot of ground to Celtic in the last few weeks, we've massively ridden our luck this season at times and have really scraped through with some results we didn't deserve. I really hope Jack is back properly now and Gio makes changes at the weekend based on last night's performance and some others recently. Last night wasn't the time to do it, but I think he needs to do it now.

I'm glad Jack's excellent strike didn't go in. At 3-0 down I would not have celebrated it, nor would many bears that were still watching, so it would have been a waste a perhaps papered over some cracks. The fact is the 2nd half didn't provide ANY positives, Jack said that himself in his post-match. I am mighty glad he's back. There may also be some optimism, in that Barisic looks to have played his last game and that it seems we will therefore have Bassey playing LB and Balogun LCH. That would improve us greatly. I will keep harping on about it, but I'm done with Tav, ( he has my thanks for the loyalty and great contributions. but that's in the distant past). He's now more of a bomb scare more often than not (again, his mistake almost cost us a goal last night), and his corners and crosses are and have been atrocious. Can't rely on him to take penalties either. I sincerely hope this is his last season. The sooner we blood in Zukowski the better. If Gio is not using Tav as a wing back and allow him the freedom to get up often, then I don't see what value he brings. Then we have the excitement and hope of seeing Ramsey alongside Jack and Aribo in midfield, all with creative qualities but steeliness too. Up top, the biggest impact I think GVB and Makaay ahve made is forcing Alfie to stay high and command the box, which has worked out well. We just need to figure out how Kent, Sakala and Roofe fit into the team. I'd prefer to see us play both Morelos and Roofe up front, but I've no idea how that fits together with the wingers etc. Aside from the players and formation, a big question mark hangs over the ability of GVB and his team to turn things around - it's a two horse race now and games against them will be vital. The test is to pick up max points and til we play them again and beat them at Ibrox. Anything less, more dropped points and this season will end in disaster and us looking for a new manager. Edit: GVB won't be sacked immediately if we don't win the league, if he can navigate the CL qualifiers, he'll get more time.

Celtc never put their feet up. Something we should learn from

There's nothing wrong with a pragmatic outlook at Parkhead but, if that was the plan (and I don't think it was actually) then you have a double pivot with Kamara and AN Other with Aribo further forward. Instead we setup with an attacking side which left too many gaps and the midfield/forward players apparently unable or unwilling to do the hard yards required to work through being pushed back.

I'm just concerned that GVB isn’t as good a manager as Postecoglou, and I’m not saying that just after last night I was cautious about GVB from the beginning. Even new additions to their team look like they know exactly what their role is and how the system works. I'm just not sure I've seen anything like that with us. There's a long season ahead and hopefully the new signings + the returning players (Jack, Roofe, Helander) can give us a boost.

I don't think that we should kid ourselves about the impact of our half time substitutions. All three improved things but Celtic conceded posession deliberately. That made it easy for our subs to look good.

Some further reflections on the game yesterday. It seems to me that something quite fundamental needs to change and change quickly if we still want to be in this title race a month from now. It relates to player attitudes but it's perhaps most easily seen in the attitudes we see routinely expressed by the support. As the season started in 2020, we were prepared for failure. Very much hoping for success but cautioned against excess optimism by the outcomes of the two previous compaigns. In the end and despite miserable cup exits, I don't think many of us could believe the extent of our success, winning the title by a mile and beating Celtic every time we faced them. It was like every dream come true and we were "back". What a contrast this season. Suddenly all caution is abandoned and we're wallowing in a new entitlement. Naturally we're going to win the league again. Celtic are shite and their weird manager is a joke. Even when we lose our transformational manager in still-unexplained circumstances, within week we're patting each other on the back, sure in our sense of destiny that we've turned a possible booby trap into a new and better launchpad. Well Celtic are not "shite", they're currently better than us in every way that matters - more skilful, more determined, more hardworking, more united. Their manager isn't a joke at all. In a few short months he's assembled a new team, got them winning, turned a basket case into league leaders and (whisper it) title favourites. Meanwhile, we're in total denial about what's happening across the city and still smugly asserting our superiority ... until last night when the lights all came on at once. If you still don't get it then you're still asleep. Yesterday was a wake up call that said we're in a fight that we're no longer favourites to win. While Celtic have been working hard to win 'their' title back, we haven't even realised we're in a fight at all. If we don't urgently lose that misconception and appreciate the challenge that's been thrown down then we have absolutely no chance of defending our title. I say "we" but of course I'm using the attitude of the support (that we all know is wrong and may of us have shared) as an analog for what I believe is replicated in the dressing room and lies at the heart of what happened yesterday. Just look at Barisic and Tavernier and tell me they haven't lost the path. Footballers are not renowned for their introspection and self-examination, they feed off the atmosphere created by the support and I think we've all somewhat lost the plot. Right now, on both sides of the white lines, we need men of determination and motivation. Goldson was right after all and last night Jack's excellent performance provided the contrast needed to show how far most of the team have fallen. I no longer think we can turn this around without significant changes on the field. The past counts for nothing. I'd rather lose this title fighting and end the season knowing who's up for the fight, than meekly capitulate, thinking the same failing plan would suddenly start working. They say managers are people who seek to do things right, while leaders are people who seek to do the right things. Right now, we desperately need a leader who has the courage to break moulds and the nous to re-assemble the pieces properly. If GvB doesn't wield the knife, then in time-honoured fashion these players will take him down with them.

He mixed it up, he played the christmas tree formation too with Kent and Roofe tucked in. Same in Europe, it made us difficult to break down.

I was just angry that with total control of the second half we still couldn't score. It added to the humiliation that the score remained 3-0.

Haha, I can't get on board with that at all. Would have denied them the clean sheet, a 3 goal win and given us a bit of hope for the final 20 minutes or whatever it was.

That's actually a good thing. If a performance like last night didn't hurt then we'd be less likely to respond the right way.

Was thinking the same thing. Someone should explain to Kamara, Barisic et al that you get to put your feet up at the end of the season.

He deserves that after last night tbh. Ross County I put squarely at McGregor’s feet though. GVB can’t legislate for two inexplicable goalkeeping gaffes in one game. Never mind the one from Bassey.

GvB's tactics look like he wants to draw away games. Given the capabilities in our squad, that's just nuts.

Yes, I am always a little suspicious of Dutch managers. They often do well with Dutch players and teams, because it's ingrained in them to play a certain way from birth. But then take that manager into a team that are not ingrained to play that way and they don't do so well. It's maybe an exaggerated point, but one that I fall back on regularly. Van Gaal, for example, does exceptionally well at Dutch sides (Netherlands, AZ, Ajax), and Barcelona--who are similar in the sense that those youngsters are ingrained in a way of playing--but then doesn't quite do it at other clubs (Bayern, Man Utd). I was never fully convinced by GvB as an option at the time, but I got on board quickly. My excitement was based on his apprenticeship with Pep, but I've not seen anything of Pep in our games. Surely we have a manager that can impose a possession-based style on the team? We don't have bad players, either.

That was awful. We've been humped there before but generally because they had a better team. Last night was all about attitude and tactics and ours were pathetic (on both counts). The second half was maybe worse than the first because they let us play and we still did next to nothing. All in all, that was a fucking embarrassment.

Its not just last night though DB, that's the problem. Every game bar Stirling Albion at home had the same theme as last night. There are a few issues here that need fixed as a matter of urgency.

i'd say the same of many players Bill. Kent for one. Probably tav too, McGregor beaten too easily at his near post for the second. Too many didn't turn up tonight, which is a wider issue. Management team also got it totally wrong and have done for weeks now, end of season big decisions to make for our board.

No problems with Bassey at centre back as a stopgap measure but it's clear that Barisic has to be put under pressure. I think that would be too drastic. With 2 or 3 other changes we should wait to give Zukowski a chance. It's great if Jack can get back in the team but if we are relying on him then we are in a bad place. I think Kamara is our best midfielder when on form. Particularly against better quality opposition. He has had it too easy though and guaranteed selection has led to a decline in form. Competition for places may turn things around. That's a high risk move. Some of the players, maybe Kent and Aribo, looked a little like shirking responsibility in attack tonight. The manager should be able to do something about that before changing the captain.

I come to this thread nearly a full 24 hours after last night's debacle. I was hurting so bad from what I witnessed last night I just couldn't face it. Nearly a day later I don't feel much better but I have now read through the now 39 page long match thread and now this Winners or Losers thread. A wide mix of opinions as you would expect. Bill's post above probably some up best my own POV . I am 100% in agreement. A few of my own thoughts in support. The Gerrard v GVB debate. The former left us before a major cup final taking the whole backroom along. The latter parachuted in by DoF very quickly. A new and better launchpad? Well, window is closed, squad is "as good as it gets" and it must be time to start making tactical and player adjustments. The Weird Celtic manager? The turnaround is astounding. He has single handedly (with 2 Lennon buffoon coaches still there) identified replacements and a new team ethic that is fast gaining momentum. The game itself? Completely blew us away. As most would agree it could have been a 7 - 1 from the 1950's. We did not "win" the 2nd half. Unlike Walker baying for 4 or 5, this weird Aussie quickly realised game won, drop the tempo, concede possession and see game out. He even had the audacity to bring some pimply kid on for experience. Looked more focused on the next game than rubbing our noses in it. Even post match, there was celebration with fans but no excessive "over reaction" like the old Broonie / Griffiths days. Their captain very measured and grounded on the games ahead. A steely determination. It really is over to us now to respond. Leaders need to be found and step up quickly. The next 2 games are now crucial. 6 points from 6 a necessity. We can't rely on them having no resolve and crumbling. I see no sign of it. We must match their results "toe to toe" at least until OF game.

I don't get this forget about last season nonsense. If we continued to apply all the good attributes from last season, we'd have won the league again. Not by 20+ points, but we'd have won it. Celtic came to Ibrox earlier in the season riding a wave of optimism and new found belief, we were told they'd destroy us, even some in here were predicting new untold levels of defeat. Then to make matters worse, we got ravaged by Covid. The predictions were for an easy Celtic victory, a return to the days of Murty and Pedro. The reality? We found a way to nullify them and to win the game. Some of us cheered the day SG left, but we are now feeling the effect of losing coaches like Beale and especially Culshaw. In countless interviews SG and the players would was lyrically regarding his input for defending and attacking set-pieces. We didn't lose goals from set-pieces, and we scored many from attacking set-pieces. Now it's reversed. GVB is a decent coach, his time in Holland showed this but his style (whatever it is) is eirher not suited for Scottish Football, or it's getting lost in translation somewhere. Watching the game last night our every weakness was identified and exploited. Gone was the Rangers who firstly found a way to beat Celtic regularly then found a way to destroy and embarrass them. Now this is reversed. Their players look hungry, fit, agile, well coached, know their positions and know their jobs. Our players are the exact opposite. Some thing else that has been reversed. The next two games are critical for GVB and Rangers. Any more dropped points and the league and possibly GVBs tenure will be hanging by a thread.

Not to mention the fact that draws are essentially defeats in a tight 2 horse race.

Viewing the game on Sky last evening let us know ra Sellik sensitivity. Andy Walker was relentless and ruthless in continually stating, "Celtic are relentless and ruthless". It was his preferred comfort blanket, saying it one more time than his three appeals for ra Sellik, "to go on and get a fourth and fifth". Maybe, the Rangers management team and players should listen to a clearly excited, garrulous Andy and take inspiration? As a Rangers supporter, I was seated well back on my sofa after 20 minutes. I thought we were insipid, spiritless, vapid, abject, ................. etc. We start again at 4 O'Clock on Sunday against Hearts at Ibrox, by which time we could be 4 points behind? We must regain our competitive spirit.

Forgive me but where is that exactly?

To be honest, SG hardly changed much bar some players. Some of them clicked, others less so. That worked once in 3 seasons. I`d give Gio and his team at least a season or two before starting to question his abilities. We had a few good seasons in Europe, mainly the opposition played their own stuff and hardly knew our players and style of play. Then came the likes of Leverkusen and taught us a lesson or two. After half a season, the Scottish sides were clued up though, dug in and we started to toil ... not least when our players failed to keep their own possible standards. Much of the above is correct IMHO. I would go as far as again suggesting a 3-at-the-back for games like yesterday, Balogun - Helander - Bassey (if all are fit), maybe a wingback on each side of a midfield 4 or 5. Tav has run its course now and in the aforementioned setup, throw in Zukowksi, who played both as RB as well as RM. Likewise, put Jack and Ramsey in the engine room, let Aribo have a free role behind the front line of at least two real strikers.

That exact thing was said clearly enough on this forum after the Aberdeen game and again before last night's debacle but (I feel) there are some individual players for whom, on current form, it wouldn't matter what formation was fielded.

It isn't much of a consolation but Ryan Jack. He was pulling us back into single handedly and was inches away from scoring a worldie. He had no help at all from the attacking players.

We sat back and soaked up pressure after going ahead v aberdeen and ross county didn't work. We do it always. no need for it go out an bury them.

So is it the players, the coaching staff or both? Because we started the season like this and GvB coming-in gave us a bit of a lift - was that nothing more than the "bounce" you get from a new manager? I'm really surprised we didn't pony up the cash for Souttar at the start of the window given the injuries we had in the centre of defence. And with Borna a shadow of himself, we could have put Bassey to LB to at least give us a more natural/comfortable backline. If we now have Balogun back, I'd do that switch now and I'd also give McLaughlin a run as we still seem so uncomfortable with balls in to the box from open play or set pieces. I don't know where to start with the midfield but getting Ramsey in is a no-brainer, along with Jack if his fitness allows. That leaves Kamara, Aribo and Davis, who I know Gio doesn't seem to rate, but I'm starting to wonder if he's been passed over too quickly. I really like Arfield and he brings a few qualities Up front? Nae idea! But maybe if we sort out the midfield, that will take care of itself? Can't believe there was no fight whatsoever last night.

Man, some should really need to a break from over-analyzing last night and looking to blame someone or something.

We are far to passive under Gio. Sitting in at the start of games and when we have a lead is costing us. He has the best Squad a rangers manager has had in 20 years to take us home here. He better use them properly.

When people think and act like losers the best thing to change are the people.

Witness delusion. We can't count on Celtic dropping points. Celtic have a better record against the rest of the league than we do. If our players think like this, and it appears that they do, then we have no hope. Time for people to stop thinking, and acting, like losers.

23 minutes that was it for me I turned it off I have been watching Rangers teams for over seventy years now and those first 23 minutes were like the 69 cup final and the worst of young Murty and that clown who came before him . I could see there was no heart no fight no direction from a clueless bench at least no fans paid their hard earned money to attend this game . The game was lost on Tuesday when our manager comes out with Ramsey wont be involved leaving Angela knowing our line up big mistake you never give the opposition a single bit of help there will be more thumpings ahead if this isn't sorted NOW.

But Walter knew how to use Novo though didn’t he?

My biggest worry tonight isn’t the players but the manager. I said before the game I was concerned GVB wouldn’t learn lessons from Gerrard and wouldn’t set up as compact. Gerrard’s Rangers wouldn’t have shipped 3 goals like that tonight. It felt like one manager schooling another.

Agree. The changes were positive but they were playing a different game 2nd half, they allowed us more possession yet we still couldn't make a breakthrough.

Disgraceful from start to finish, Our game plan for weeks has been unclear, tonight that came to fruition. No midfield AGAIN. a Ryan Jack who has played 0 games in a year brought in at half time to trn things around.. a very unfair roll of the dice. I will come out and call it now. Management = clueless. Players = gutless. Next 3 games for us decide the league. I'll be amazed if we pick up 9 points. Then for our 'captain' to shun the post match interview and let Ryan Jack do it.. just give it up. You don't have the guts. End of. Too many backed off tonight when it called for aggressive go for it. Barisic and Tav a disgrace. An invisible midfield. An isolated striker. De ja vu.

I'd drop kent with aribo out left arfield behind the striker and sakala out right. Jack and Ransey in the centre. Barasic out bassey at left back balagun in centre half. Ryan Jack's performance was captains material and I hope Gio takes note. With Ramsey next to him I recon well fix our dysfunctioning midfield and finally look like a team again. Ryan Jack could very well save our season.

I've read post after post for weeks saying how good Kamara is in games that I've watched and seen him be wasteful in passing and fade in and out of games. I understand how good a player he is and has been but there's only so long you can go on living on the credit of past performances. The issue with Kamara isn't that anyone thinks he's not a very good player, it's that he isn't showing it in anything but snatches in games and his tempo is often debilitatingly slow. He needs to refresh and regroup.

Difficult to comment on that first half without using the word disgraceful. Right from the off, we looked frightened and certainly unable to cope with the threat Celtic clearly have. Too many players unprepared to go the hard yards and/or incapable of understanding instruction. The starting XI was fine (it's the one most wanted) but not if the plan was to try and contain Celtic. Instead they've had the freedom of Parkhead to do what they want with not one Rangers player seeming capable of matching their play. Can we restore some pride at least? If so, we need to add Sands or Davis into the midfield for Amad and move Aribo into a position where he actually becomes a threat. Balogun can also replace Barisic and perhaps Bassey may do better than a retreating traffic cone at left back. We need some sort of platform.

Telt yeese

Game and league over - they are miles better than us and showing it tonight. We are so far off them. An utter disgraceful performance - lambs to slaughter

Sounds like no one wanted to touch the poisoned chalice. The same old names just go round and round, as they have done since the embarrassment of the old RST and it just further erodes any remaining credibility of that increasingly pointless organisation. What has it all been for?

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