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I'm on holiday this week so not online as much as I'd like. That has allowed me some time to think about the debate. Firstly, as always, I expect people to respect differing points of view and avoid playing the man, not the ball. We all want to same outcome here: a successful and sustainable football club. FWIW, I think both camps make very decent points. King absolutely deserves our respect and thanks but I'm unconvinced he - or at least Club1872 - deserve our £13million instead of the club at this stage. Nevertheless let's not forget King is, especially after tonight's result, offering a discount and a level of shareholding that can protect supporter interests (25%+1 or not actually). That deserves some positive acknowledgement alongside the suspicion I've noted. I'm obviously a supporter of fan ownership but at the scale involved at a club like Rangers (come on we're talking tens of millions) we need everyone to be beyond reproach. That means transparent fan organisations, credible board representation and an understanding shareholding base when it comes to dealing with day-to-day business and the privacies/politics involved. We're still some way from the latter two points but without the clarity mentioned above they'll never be achieved. Surely they must recognise that? There are valid doubts in that regard and doesn't necessarily mean a luck of trust but, in actual fact, when we talk about #neveragain it means recognising we're all accountable and our intentions worthy of examination. Finally, the incumbent board are in a difficult position here. They can't openly advise a course of action but they should find a way of publicising their thoughts that can traverse the bizarre battle-lines we often see across forums, websites and other 'fan media'.

When Borna hit that marvellous free kick last night and the keeper saved it , did anyone notice that Kemar actually saved Liege s defender from scoring an own goal. Also just how many fantastic goals have we scored in Europe against top class teams, I know a goals a goal , but we have scored some absolute beauties in the last few seasons ?.

i would have assumed those provisions would have been put in place to deal with exceptional circumstances like urgent maintenance or acts of God, not to pander to the home sides requirement for a jolly to integrate their new manager. "in the land of the Peter, the oriental eyed man is king"

The time taken to make decisions. Goal celebrations are impacted (a fair percentage of goals now go to VAR and you can see players and fans holding off). Some of the decisions are still contentious. The continuity/flow of football is what makes it the best sport to watch - that is negatively impacted by VAR. The usage is inconsistent. Mistakes are okay - we're humans, not robots.

Wonder which team have conceded the most goals in the Europa league so far ? Just wondering.

I have said this lots. If they bring VaR in up here I am out

I am 52 years old and been following Rangers since 1983, and some of the football we are playing this season is genuinely the best I've seen.

They’ve conceded 2 more than Dundalk

Perfectionists versus the rest, seems to be how it boils down. As CB says, the joy of football is in the ebb and flow. Take that away and it loses a major part of its appeal. Rugby and American football are both crap to watch and a main reason for that is their stop/start nature. A lot of things about modern football annoy me but if they bring in VAR up here, I think it might be the final straw.

You mean like the decision of how best to invest £13m?

I see what you're saying. I'd make a couple of comments: You could say to C1872 that you have cash to invest but only in the club, and if enough people do it the they should look into that option as well You could also look to buy £500 worth in the open market...potentially getting more shares, plus you own them and can attend AGMS etc. It's 2,777 shares that are then controlled by someone with Rangers best interests at heart.

It's all stop/start. The appeal of football over rugby is that the game should just flow. If we get bogged down with appeals, var decisions, 5 subs etc etc its going to be ruined. I'd rather a couple of wrong decisions over the season than disrupting the whole game.

How long have you got! Basically everything that Gonzo said. I have stopped watching English football and a big part of that is because of VAR

Let's get one thing crystal clear, nothing in the latest announcement is about fan ownership. The fans, albeit not the fans but Club1872, will never own Rangers. That much I would stake my house on. What is being proposed is that buying King's shares will mean the club is safeguarded from future malfeasance by rogue owners. That's the promise but until someone can show me how that promise will not only be kept but guaranteed, it can only ever be an empty promise. Safeguarding Rangers from a repeat of past mismanagement won't be achieved by owning shares and expressing good intention. It will only be achieved if that shareholding is used in the right way by astute people acting with honest intentions. And here's the thing - nothing I've read gives me any assurance that Club1872 and the people controlling it, as it currently stands, are either astute or entirely open and honest. The only thing I see clearly is that Club1872 does not run its affairs in anything like the right way. I'm not particularly close to the organisation, which makes this view all the more valid, since I have no personal axe to grind about personalities involved, for or against. While Club1872 remains the opaque, clandestine and quasi-democratic outfit it is today, there is no way I can believe it worthy of using a blocking shareholding wisely. Right now the changes required are at least as much about Club1872 as Rangers. In my opinion, Club1872 could be a trustworthy safeguarding presence on the Rangers board but not as things stand and that's why, with Rangers' interests at heart, I could never join the blind faith queue or put my trust in an outfit that simply hasn't shown it deserves it.

I don't think that the share price changes much under your scenario. Directors loans get repaid, the funding is used to pay the costs of the club and to buy replacement players. There won't be that much change in the balance sheet unless we get a consistent run in the CL. The price in itself isn't a major issue per se, but rather an indication as to C1872's lack of playing hard ball. In respect of your both sides of the coin, it's quite simple, as far as I see. Pros C1872 increases its shareholding towards or over the 25% Dave King is recompensed for putting the cash in Cons The cash isn't going to the club The holding could and probably will be diluted The intentions of C1872 are fairly irrelevant as they're not going to influence much due to their increased holding, although as a member, the corporate governance leaves a lot to be desired. There are a lot of related side issues but generally it comes down to whether or not people are relaxed about the cash not going to the club when it desperately needs it.

It's another layer of offialdom that is costly, wastes time and like what went before, doesn't get all the decisions right. #Bin ....or for Scottish football, pass on it until a time when (if ever) it works and only if affordable.

Regarding "fan-ownership" ... even if Club 1872 (I try to avoid C1872 with respect to the common C19 abbreviation) gets King`s shares, we are a long long way off "fan-ownership". So why beat that drum? This is - much like Club 1872`s prime intention - about safeguarding the club as such by acquiring a set amount of shares that prevent *hostile actions. I would like to hear more info from Club 1872 and how they want to tackle this and what they intent to do. *BTW, given the amount of Bears amongst the major shareholders, we are long way off anything "hostile" anyway.

Step for a hint... Group H # TEAM P W D L F A GD PTS 1 Lille 5 3 2 0 12 5 7 11 2 Milan 5 3 1 1 11 7 4 10 3 Sparta Prague 5 2 0 3 10 11 -1 6 4 Celtic 5 0 1 4 7 17 -10 1

Tonight it really hit home how much I’m missing attending our games. if only I could have been there tonight to see us qualify for the EL last 32. Hopefully normality will resume soon...

Finally managed to embed a tweet! Thought this one was worth the effort, fantastic audio and shows everything about what we are all about this season. The hardest part of this clip for me is to stop watching it, I’m hooked on it!

strongest team in both games please. Anyone know what that is?

Likewise

I took the decision long ago that if shares were evenly priced to all parties then the appropriate way to hold Rangers shares was on a personal basis. That way I don't need someone else to tell me what are "the best interests of Rangers" nor do I run any risk of that someone using "my" shares against my own judgement. I object to my pre-emption rights being denied when new shares are being issued, while understanding the strategic requirement to do so on ONE occasion. The voice of the ordinary Rangers shareholder is largely being suppressed.

You might want to change your Chelsea predictions: I've added Zouma to my Fantasy League team, so they'll end up shipping 5 to Leeds. (I wouldn't be unhappy with that...)

i would love to see tomorrow's match between Chelsea and Leeds played in the spirit of the way they played in the 70s that will keep the VAR man busy ?

I can understand the time issue -- even if I do not think it's as long as people say (last week's Villa goal was the longest I've seen and I timed it at two and a half minutes, which is not excessive for a really tight call like that). It's a small price to pay for the correct decision. Too many conflate VAR with the rules. VAR has just highlighted the issues with the rules. And, there's still human error, going back to that Villa goal, where they were so concerned with the offside that they missed the foul in the build-up! The handball rule is stupid. The offsides need work, with regards to which part of the body is used as a line. (I wonder if they could put something in the players shirts that the technology could track, thus giving a repeatable, consistent and instant decision?) These things are not VAR; they're the rules. It's just that now we have a way of getting to the correct result. I don't understand why you'd want incorrect decisions over correct ones at the cost of a few seconds wait. Again, if we had VAR in last season's LC final, we may well have won it. I just can't accept the 'they won it with an illegal goal, but hey, it was a great fast-paced game'. I'm a Rangers fan; I want the right decisions.

Aye, i was shouting at Roofe....but what a freekick and save.

Yes but its these silly shoulder or finger/hand offsides that really get the fans goat, fair enough if its a leg, but if its a part of their anatomy that you cannot score from then it should not be pulled back or disallowed.

I don't have a problem with it as such. However the way the rules have changed are the main issue. A player being offside but the linesman not signalling unless it's a goal. The new interpretation of the handball rule. The inconsistency of handballs where any sort of touch of hand rules out a goal. If VAR helps improve identifying whether a player is offside or not then I'm all for it.

To be fair to club1872, they need to watch as any money they have needs to be used to keep their shareholding as is , without getting further dilution. However to go from that position to the DK situation is the same as walking your first steps to beating Usain Bolt in the 100 m

They were leading for 26 minutes. Surely that is enough to award them the match in these Covid-straitened times.

Not sure how you can say that. If C1872 has serious cash to invest, I really doubt that the club would refuse it. It's up to C1872 to let the club know. The club is obviously open to new investors, given the 2 or 3 that appeared in the last 18 months, and current investors increasing their stakes C1872 don't appear to be in a position to invest in the club anyway so what's the point of the club asking them to invest. They're having to raise cash for King's shares. It seems crazy to make a decision of where you want to invest your cash in 3 years time when we don't know the state of the club at that point.

How the last 32 draw works . The draw will comprise 12 group winners, 12 group runners-up and eight third-placed sides from the Champions League who will drop into the Europa League knockout phase.The clubs will be split into two pots, with the 12 group winners and the four best third-ranked teams in the UEFA Champions League group stage all seeded.No team can play a club from their Europa League group or a side from the same national association at this stage.

At this moment time of course it doesn't but, let's say we win the league, make the EL quarters, and qualify for the CL group stages next season on the top of other investment, e.g. Edmiston House. What is the share price then? Yes, if my aunty had baws she'd be my uncle and 50p is daft right now but fast forward to next December and 20p could easily be a bargain and that comes before the chance our co-efficient takes us directly into the group stages for 2022/23 and we've sold three players for £50m before then. And we're still only two years into the three year payment term. To be honest, I'm not sure the price is the main factor anyway. Yes, it's worth discussing but the intentions now and after the fact hold more interest to me. I just want people to be open-minded and see both sides of the literal coin. PS: I have to temper my comments by saying I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as others on the financial side and that the share price can go down as well as up...

I don't believe he is offering it at a discount. The last 2 share trades were at 18p. The recent share issues are at 20p. Given the lack of a market for his shares, I'd have expected C1872 to try and negotiate some sort of discount.

That win felt great! Started both halves pretty passively but determination and came through with flying colors. RTV gave MOTM to Kent and I would agree. Not everything he did came off but his energy continually created chances such as the great assist for the winner, you’ve got to give him credit. Arfield so important to how we play and I thought Morelos was very good again tonight. Kamara with another big European performance and Goldson’s header was an absolute peach to get us back in the game, albeit for just 2 mins. Overall, very happy with the result and the performance. Onward now we go to the most important game of the season against Ross County on Sunday.

Is this the first time we have reached 11 points in a European group stage ? I remember under PLG, we got 10 pts from a 4 game group. 12 or 14pts would be in keeping with nearly everything else that has gone on this season. It's not normal but I like it !!!

I think that is the issue here. The ruling as such, is within how the SPFL say they deal with such circumstances. However, the extraordinary circumstance of a global pandemic surely has to be considered in this instance, given the reason why Celtic requested the fixture change. Blair (SPFL) gave Peter his desired Old Firm Fixture date and how that rebounded on poor Peter. It could happen again “The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley.”

You are talking at me like I disagree with anything that you or anyone on this thread is saying So again I will say that the questions everyone has asked have been relevant and fair. I haven’t disagreed with anyone or said anyone wrong - that’s a key point This started because I said I would support it and sad to see negativity, which it is, because every subject surrounding us ends up in bickering The above post is you telling me every reason why this is wrong when I haven’t offered anything to suggest those points weren’t correct, like I have been shouting in the thread I haven’t done anything like it In essence, your making the point at the wrong person if you think I’m saying you are wrong As I said before, I will sit down and speak with them next week, I’ll ask the questions and try to get answers best I can because I too have plenty to ask Respectfully, It doesn’t need everyone telling me how wrong club1872 are or what they should have done (like above) because I haven’t said they or this was perfect in anyway The biggest issue seems I said I would back it and I will - fan ownership like fan media, done properly, is key It’s our club and it’s ok to feel that way

For those yearning for a sustainable model going forward this proposal takes us futher from that goal not closer.