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For those yearning for a sustainable model going forward this proposal takes us futher from that goal not closer.

The bheasts would be better off paying for us to go to Dubai for a winter training camp!

The whole point of C1872 members giving them money for share purchases is to put the money into the club. Not to send this money away to South Africa never to be seen or benefitted from again. If King wants to sell his shares and can make a profit on them, then he should do so, and we would expect him to have the integrity to not sell to an outsider with no love for the club. That in itself is a big ask but there you are, we are a demanding bunch and he knows that full well. If we think what the club could do with £13M of new money, it could well set us up for the next couple of years, ensure we only have to sell 1 or 2 players instead of more, perhaps allow us to strengthen further, or to invest in our stadium and facilities. I would 100% back any investment where the money goes to the club directly. I will have no part of a legacy where the only legacy is King riding off into the sunset with his "investment" back at the expense of the fans.

Arguably raising £13m and paying it into the club, rather than paying it to Dave King, makes a repeat of 2012 less likely. Dave King will be looking for £5.4m from the club in 10 months, and there is all the other funding that's required. Where is that coming from? That £13m is cash that could help the club become more financially secure and help it back on its feet. Why is it sad for people to take that view?

I had to listen to the radio to follow our match on Sunday and found it surprisingly enjoyable. Neil McCann, Brian Rice and, I think it was, Paul Mitchel on commentary were quite balanced and insightful. Both Rice and McCann had decent knowledge of some of the Falkirk players and their style of play and both as well as the commentator were very complimentary of Rangers and our performance and our style of play. If you'd just been transported in from outer space and had never listened to Radio Scotland before you could almost have been forgiven for thinking this was normal coverage. I can only assume this aberration was caused by the main Sportsound producers marching on Parkhead to throw sharks at the Glasgow police leaving some junior in charge. I expect normal service will resume on Thursday.

There are fellow fans taking out legacy memberships , who have absolutely no idea what their money is going to be used for , where its going to be held , who has access to is etc etc , another cluster fuck by the 1872 board , absolutely no transparency , everything in a rush as per usual .

This doesn't guarantee that. Not even close. I think it was foolish for it to be sold that way.

Away game coverage is ok.

Well done you, the head rules the heart. You are correct of course, something bordering on indifference is the way to go. Individual and collective discipline in face of overwhelming emotional demands. My problem is when I rationalise it, I find it gives me a feeling of immense well being when they are subjected to aa embarrassing thrashing.

Ain't this acquisition of shares not similar to the buying of shares from Ashley & Co. a wee while back? While I see the whole point of putting money into the club, is safeguarding its future by acquiring shares (at a lower price too, as far as I understand it) not on a similar wavelength?

I hope they get a draw in Milan, that being the case. A loss, even a close one, and he may be gone ,I don't want that. Don't want them winning as that gives them additional cash - the smaller cash inflow from a draw would be suitable for this Bear

Certainly going to back the campaign anyway I can. A chance to ensure 2012 never happens again is a good thing and it’s sad to see negativity surrounding it Upped my subscription to legacy this morning and back what they are trying to do

Yes, I'm happy with that as a principle, but I'd just prefer that they got their shares directly from the club so that the club benefits.

Hoping to have an interview with King on our podcast at some point. All sensible questions for consideration can be posted in this thread or privately to me.

We will need to agree to disagree because I am not talking "at you" when posting here - you are taking it as me speaking to what you believe in when it is me talking about the subject at hand. I think you need to take it less personally. The point isn't being made at you, it is being made at the process, or lack thereof. I would suggest you read the post again and you will hopefully find that none of it is pointing at you - it is pointing at Dave King and C1872. The "negativity" as you see it is absolutely warranted and, I would contend, isn't negativity but is actually justified questioning. Just because it isn't the preferred desire of what C1872 want doesn't mean it isn't justified - it also isn't negativity when it is questioning what, how, why, when C1872 propose making this all work. Rangers fans have been though more than enough previously to know that having a healthy cynicism, and a questioning mentality, is not only justified but actually NEEDED. I would contend that those who support this without having ANY IDEA about the direction we are being taken are the ones who need to open their eyes. Those who are supporting it just now haven't a clue on some of the questions raised, not a clue. But they are blindly signing up, which is absolutely their prerogative - but they also shouldn't be pointing fingers at those who also have the club's best interests at heart but who want to know just how this will actually work. The subject ends up in bickering because, like it or not, C1872 got way, way, way too far ahead of itself and hasn't made any attempt whatsoever to pre-empt any questions prior to asking people to sign up for the legacy membership and start contributing. That, for me, is poor governance. When something as important as this is being rolled out one of the very first things you ask yourself is "what questions will the members ask" and, as I said previously, some of the ones raised on here should have been obvious to C1872. Will I sign up for the legacy membership ? Probably. Will I do it blindly as many have already done ? Absolutely not. When will I do it ? When I know that the direction C1872 is actually taking is something that is sustainable. The most operative words to your post above is "done properly" - anyone suggesting that C1872 have handled this properly so far haven't seen how governance is handled elsewhere, IMHO.

The timing of this seems somewhat strange to me too. Whilst Dave King will always be regarded as an integral part of the recovery of the Club, I am somewhat surprised at both his Chairmanship resignation and, moreso, the announcement of the selling of his shares. I would have thought that he would have wanted one, or both, to still be ongoing when we take the largest, though not final, step of the journey.

Thanks Stevie, and thanks for taking my post in the manner in which it was intended. I disagree about the combativeness to your original post. I don't think that anyone on here is being combative. I think Bluedell and rbr ask very legitimate questions. And they are being asked in a non-combative way. The problem with such an emotive subject is that the "sides" become entrenched. And there should be ways around that - but the launching of it without any real meat to it just seems all very haphazard to me. Both King and C1872 should have, prior to ANY announcement, have pre-empted any questions that may come of this. They should have known the question of the funds going to King and not the club would be asked, C1872 should have known their governance structure would be questioned given lack of AGM's and, indeed, lack of any substantive communication for quite some time. Then, BOOM, give us your cash. That is NOT the way to run an organization that does, and will, have to rely on its members to continue funding. Legitimate questions are not combative just because they question those on the other "side" of the fence. Bluedell in fact also said he supports the idea. My biggest issue with it all is that I just don't see how, if there is any need for future funding, that C1872 will be able to provide that through the members. Do they even have a plan for that ? Because the way this looks just now is that the ONLY thing they are interested in is buying King's shares - that does NOT guarantee that 2012 doesn't happen again and, as FS it was I think said, by owning 25% of the shares it actually is more likely to put us in a more precarious position, not less - I just don't see how C1872 find the funds for both the 13 million share purchase and then any additional funding that may be needed. Now, granted, hopefully the model becomes self-sustaining, but there is no guarantee of that either.

When fans are prepared to part with their money without what I would consider even a skeleton outline of a plan, is it any wonder Club1872 continues to conduct itself like this. It seems nothing ever changes and no one ever learns.

That’s the thing isn’t it. I didn’t mention finances or anything at first, I said I support the concept and I wasn’t looking for so much come back from an innocent comment. I have lots of respect for @Bluedellalso and haven’t challenged him. I offered some speculative answers in relation to why he is selling rather than gifting I have also openly admitted there is plenty of questions and the lads make good points Indeed, I am sitting down with Dave King & club1872 to get those answers to educate myself further. But above all, the combativeness is the response only shows my original point to be correct, the negativity surrounding it is extraordinary. As a support we literally argue over anything All my point was simply I backed the idea It’s an emotive subject obviously!

and those shares died with whyte mine included. I am not having a go at the RST merely pointing out that solely buying shares at share issues has it's own perils.

There is an element of one-dimensional and quite wishful thinking about this. At the root of Club1872's philosophy seems to be a wish to impose itself between Rangers and any controlling shareholding that might want to do harm to the club, which is all very laudable. However, as always in these things, there is another side to the coin. With sufficient shareholding, Club1872 could also obstruct actions which are in the best interests of the club but might have certain implications that Club1872 don't agree with. That which has the ability to safeguard also has the means to do harm. Not that I'm suggesting for one minute that Club1872 currently has anything but the best of intentions but that on its own is seldom enough in real life. Decisions can be taken for all sorts of well-intentioned reasons, not all of which will turn out to be as wise as first thought. Underpinning everything I hear about Club1872 is the incontestable presumption that it knows best and, by inference, always will. Who runs Club1872? Who will run Club1872 in the future, say, 20 years from now? What does 25+% Club1872 shareholding do to our ability to attract new outside investment? Or attract new experience and skill on to the board? Any significant investor would want to know the pedigree of the senior shareholders and certainly of anyone who can stop special resolutions. I totally get the hypothetical notion of benign oversight. What I see no evidence of are any safeguards that Club1872 will always act with good judgement and will never be influenced by the sort of madcap characters who infested RST in the past.

Stevie - with all due respect, Bluedell has a greater grasp on the financial matters than the vast majority of Rangers fans. I have great respect for you, but when people start talking finances without having expertise in the field and without prior knowledge they become very, very dangerous conduits. For example, if King's family had said he needed to get something back, why even convert into shares ? The club could have had a new share issue, C1872 could have raised the money in that way and then the club used those funds to repay his loan - no need for share conversion. I think most of us agree that as a concept fan ownership is one to be supported - but there are a number of questions that need answered - what happens when further funding is necessary - do they honestly believe that they can find those additional funds ? What will their corporate governance structure look like ? What voice do the fans actually have with the running of what would be the largest single shareholder of the club ? There are tons of questions, and very few answers. I think it is dangerous for fans to simply support this without having answers, without knowing what the plans are, what the direction is.

No hassles bud, it’s an emotive subject. I won’t pretend to know as much as others and concede my view is simplistic

The longer their board dithers with the ginger whinger the better for us , that's if we keep winning

I hope Milan absolutely annihilate them. ?

Stevie , appologies for the tone of my replies , Ive been reading stuff on other forums and on twitter and the amount of ignorance on this subject is staggering . I agree 100% regards DK and his situation , its a very complex issue that no one really apartb from him understands fully , infact there was much conjecture around the time he stepped down , why he stepped down ,and this regularity issue with SARS and his inability to get money out of SA was given as one possible reason . The issues I have with Club1872 from a governance stance are valid IMHO , even more so when we havent had a members meeting in over 2 years and the board elections were changed with very little info again at short notice to a period I believe of 3 years . Again I fuklly agree that the business model must change to a sustainable one , but the finacial guarentees that would be required of a 25% shareholder , in a multi million pound comopany are huge and Club 1872 cannot guarentee to meet these requirements leading to dilutiion of share possibly amongst other things , also the question of getting fan representation on the board is ludicris , anyone from Club 1872 that managed to get on the board would be under the same restraints as the current board members , can you imagine the furore if there are questions that need asked in a situation that may arise and the Club1872 /board member cannot answer them because of confidentiality issues . Good luck to them but it will never happen without a sugar daddy coming on board , if they had the nmoney required they could simply have went to DK and got the shares themselves .

I'm suggesting that if C1872 are able to raise £13m then that should go to the club for new shares. King still walks away with shares that he says are worth £33m and not nothing. Why are you saying he's walking away with nothing if C1872 don't buy the shares when that isn't true? You said that there were "perhaps conditions were he was entitled to this funds back." Who are you suggesting that he entered this agreement with where there were conditions if it wasn't C1872? Ultimately if you wish to give Dave King your hard-earned rather than it going to the club then it's your choice and you're free to do so, but I just don't get why people would want to do it. It's a debate rather than an argument, mate, and C1872 should be encouraging more debates as to what happens. C1872 should be giving its members a choice of whether the cash raised goes to King or the club, but they won't. It'll be the normal 'yes' or 'no' on the King deal and avoid giving the members a real choice. I'm frustrated with the current 3 board members and one shadow director are making all the major decisions and then presenting them to the members as a fait accompli. We're not talking about a small project of funding of a season ticket. We're talking about £13m of fan's money and there's been no consultation and no AGMs or on-line votes where we can make our feelings known.

Stevie , I attended every meeting and every hustings when the initial elections took place , I watched as the club themselves pushed certain individuals through the press and backed them to the detriment of others , at these meetings laterally board members lied to us the members , James Blair had an absolute nighmare where he couldn,t remember a conversation that a board member that was being bullied and threatend took to him only 2 weeks prior to this meeting , yet 30 minutes later repeated word for word a cobversation from over a year earlier . This does nothing in the bigger picture for Rangers , I agree Dave King is owed a huge debt of gratitude , but this level of ownership brings responsibilities that financially the support simly cannot live up to and its not being spelled out .That is extremly worrying . The message is that we will own this vast amount of Rangers stock yet have no financial responsibility going forward , we cant get a fan on the board from Club1872 due to conflicts of interest and business confidentiality , so what do we do regards that issue .Have someone on the board that cant answer questions or pass on information , its a recipe for disaster .

He doesn't walk away with nothing. He walks away with shares that he says are worth £33m. Your comment that he is entitled to get his funds back doesn't make sense to me. Why convert the loans into shares if that was the case. Are you suggesting that C1872 agreed to this purchase years ago, and the board of C1872 have withheld this information from the members? As for going above and beyond, I thought he had, but he's now wanting to get most of his cash back, which he's entitled to do, but: 1. It takes away from that assertion. 2. As a member of C1872, I believe that the cash raised should be for the financial benefit of the club and not repaying third parties.

The negativity I referred to is the sniping against 1872 Sometimes looking beyond that is necessary to achieve a goal Are they perfect? No I don’t think so but I haven’t found that Why should King walk away with nothing? He has went above and beyond and perhaps conditions were he was entitled to this funds back? My view is I’m prepared to back it and get the answers I’m looking for from them, I’ll also make sure everyone sees them as well

... be that as it may, should we snatch 55 and navigate our way to the CL group stages, we'll be on safer financial footing than probably ever before. For the share-buyer, it is a essentially some sort of win-win situation. Either you spent your money in safeguarding the club as such further, or buy shares to finance the club. I reckon quite a few people buy season tickets for the latter reason, and shares for the former. It remains to be seen what is the plan should Club 1872 not be able to buy the whole chunk of DK's shares. Early days ... and one can understand the "reservations" people have. EDIT ... "fan ownership" won't take place unless Club 1872 et al grab 50+ % of the shares. New Oasis Asset Limited, 66,672,893, 20.37% Club 1872, 16,202,838, 4.95% ... is somewhat off 50+ % going by my maths.

It's Chris! BBC Scotland's Sports News Correspondent, Chris McLaughlin finally appeared on last evening's Sportsound. Twenty minutes of soothing narrative, he read out Peter's statement and assured the listenership that Dermot was, "absolutely appalled at events on Sunday evening". Further, Neil will lead the team to Milan. It became difficult to hear Chris, maybe he had a sore throat? However, I suspect he was free styling when he added, "If Celtic avoid a shoeing, if they don't get the run around in Milan, he will remain in the dug out for St Johnstone on Sunday". The Sportsound show was set up for the Scotland - Finland female international, and host Jane Lewis turned to Julie Fleeting and Steven Thomson. Chris was off. Next week, Chris sticks his tongue in Neil's ear!

It's unclear. As a lifetime member, I'm presuming that they are not taking away my ability to vote, but who knows.

And if they don't win it we might see Lennie hanging from the stands like a blow up sex doll .

As I understand things, C1872 will need to raise £13m over a 3 year period to buy DK’s shareholding. Will they be able to raise that amount of money?

Fan ownership? With a model that takes your money and you actually own hee-haw. Not for me

Quadruple treble By winning last seasons Scottish Cup away and giess peace

Would Rangers not benefit more by any cash that C1872 raise going to it, rather than to a shareholder? Was it always your plan to recoup a majority of your investment from the fans' organisation? Do you think any of the other investors in the club will look to recoup their cash in a similar manner? @FrankieI've added more and will continue to do so as I think of them.

If you think this is going to happen (barring a billionaire sugary daddy appearing) then I've got some bridges to sell you.

Where's Chris? BBC Scotland's Sports News Correspondent did a one minute piece to camera from his home on Friday. He looked distressed, describing the pain of Prague. Neil promised a, "change of culture" but another 4-1 humping ensued at the hands of Sparta. Chris lamented the loss of European football. Chris did not mention Rangers, nor their continued topping of Europa Cup Group D, and ignored the fact that another Scots club had played in the same competition the night before. Chris did not appear on BBC Radio Scotland's Friday evening Sportsound. Studio discussion before the Scot's women international against Portugal, concluded Neil Lennon's future was bleak. However, immediately there was opportunity for ra Sellik legend to turn it all around by defeating Ross County on Sunday. Saturday's On the Ball took the Chris McLaughlin line, did not mention Rangers 2-2 draw against Benfica, and chose not to discuss the Lennon situation at Sellik. Hardly surprising, it's only fifteen months past that Cosgrove was heavily promoting Lennon as the next national manager. I know it's hard to believe that DrStu' promoted a man accused of assaulting and threatening the women in his life, in new, modern Scotland? Chris failed to trap on Saturday's Sportsound too. Big Dick adhered to the Tom English narrative. Tom knows Dermot, he's a tough businessman, and a strong character. Peter and Dermot are very close, Neil has their confidence. We know this because Neil told of the Friday afternoon zoom call. Europe has gone and Lawwell and Lennon can both take a share of the blame. "Celtic are domestic bullies" says Tom, and can continue in that vein, "starting tomorrow against Ross County". Sunday's Sportsound has Jane Lewis, Liam McLeod, Pat Bonner, Billy Dodds, ....... etc. Where's Chris? We hear live commentary of the calamity, a hard earned 0-2 result for the Staggies. Pat is fizzing, Billy names five players in green'n'grey that "have chucked it". A post match interview with Neil revealed, "today's result doesn't help". Over to Grangemouth, still no mention of Rangers Thursday evening exertions, a comfortable 0-4 occurs and events in the Stade de Gadd car park take precedent. Truly it's amazing, we are subjected to any number of descriptions of the grouping of Yahoos kicking over barriers, lobbing missiles at both Police and exiting players/staff, and vitriolic chanting directly aimed at Neil Lennon. A minority, young and entitled, have not known anything other than success. Anything and everything other than, the Green Brigade. Tom English, Richard Gordon, Michael Stewart, Stuart Cosgrove, .... etc have all lionised and eulogised this mob on numerous occasions. They have congratulated them on their displays, their witty banners, their noise, their created atmosphere, and their political aims and aspirations. They have nurtured the Green Brigade and even after Sunday evening's events, still cannot name them. Monday's Sportsound has Kenny MacIntyre, Tom English, Craig Levein, and Gary Caldwell. A further two Sellik Podcasters are invited on to the show, Sean McDonald and Stephen Wray. Tom loves the Podcasting duo, "ah the lads are spot on". Wait a minute, both want to see the back of Neil, like yesterday. Both are wary of Peter Lawwell, both mention his considerable remuneration, and both think an interim manager is necessary. I was waiting on Tom's, 'ah know Dermot' speech, but like Chris, it failed to appear. We can only assume Chris remains standing atop the Hinshelwood grassy knoll, he has issued a total of two tweets in four days reference the current Sellik situation. What is the point of a decade's worth of full throated consummation of every cheesy green'n'grey cock presented, if Chris cannot give us, the License fee payers, those crucial interviews with the main players? It would appear ra Sellik now agree with Rangers, Chris McLaughlin is not worth talking to.