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Nobody will present any clear metric for success. The whole thing is a distraction tactic. Scottish football fans will swallow it whole.

If it's got to change might be better with an 18 team premier league

How is a 14 team premiership going to work ? Play each other home & away then split after 26 games? That’ll lead to lots of meaningless games. And how many will be relegated? Bet the likes of Hamilton, St Mirren etc will try to have just one up & one down.. This is going to be a bigger shambles than last weeks vote

Posterity must be kind to the good guys? Since the turn of the millennium at Beeb Scotland, the 'good guys' are always ra Sellik. Whatever is broadcast, and that can sometimes be difficult to fully control(see last Saturday with Tom English and Michael Stewart), those in the future will mostly have what is printed as a reference. The banks of ra Sellik-minded at PQ have become choreographed, rehearsed to such an extent, they have become most predictable. I am sure the analogy with medieval monks relentlessly transcribing victors' history will be accepted as a compliment? Any story that is negative or embarrassing to their beloved will be sculpted, words and phrases softened. The mood music of the hidden hand will be completely removed. Last weekend's events have already been crafted. Peter Lawwell's considerable involvement has been disappeared. We heard Neil Doncaster's first action after the vote was advisably guillotined at 17.00 hrs, was to telephone someone who is NOT on any SPFL Committees, call minuted at 17.01hrs to Peter Lawwell. Those looking back will not read that fact. Talking facts, the whole narrative has morphed into Dundee's journey to enlightenment, whilst any influence exacted by Lawwell, Shifty McGifty, and Rod McKenzie has been quietly disappeared. Beeb Scotland's concluding narrative began, "Initially, Dundee registered an aborted NO vote". It ends with a congratulatory, the majority of Scottish football is grateful for Dundee's change of heart". The phrase 'change of heart' is not one the Beeb will ever attribute to Rangers, a Rangers player, or Rangers supporters, we do not have a heart. Of course, back in the day, 'Off the Ball' had a regular contributor, a Rangers supporter who was a school Janitor from Largs; for several years he was introduced as, "the H-u-n with a heart". Who remembers such broadcasting posterity? During the week, a concurrent story embarrassing ra Sellik and Scotland appeared. The FC Copenhagen player, Michael Santos was disciplined by UEFA, a three match ban for, "assaulting another person" in a, "last 16 Europa Cup tie". Now, we know the efficaciousness employed by Sellik Park Stewards and Police Scotland in ensuring no opposition players or supporters enjoy the experience scoring a goal, particularly a winning goal. Ranks of high visibility Hectors stand immediately in front of the away ion, deliberately preventing anyone from espousing joy. PQ deployed another regularly used tactic. They have to report the story, but the wording will be kinder, and the main participant will be demonised. Further, the stories life on the shelves of both the official Beeb website and Ceefax will be short-lived. The full story below lasted less than four hours : Danes' Santos Banned for Celtic Assault. FC Copenhagen's Michael Santos has been given a three match ban by UEFA for assaulting another person during the side's Europa Cup tie at Celtic Park. Santos and a Copenhagen staff member were charged by Police Scotland in connection with an alleged assault on an Officer, as his side celebrated their second goal in their 3-1 win in Glasgow in February. The attacker reportedly pushed a Police Officer to the ground during the Danish side's celebrations, in their 4-2 aggregate win in the last 16 Europa Cup tie. Factually, it was a last 32 tie, but posterity being kind will low those in the future to know ra Sellik went at least as far as Rangers ie the last 16. The report is an interesting interpretation of events. A rushing, excited player careers into the side of a Polis moving at right angles, and it's assault. The Sub-Editor's headline is a disgrace and a travesty. It derivates from the Angela Haggerty school of HND Journalism. A manufactured 'Celtic assault' will ensure posterity will not be kind to Michael Santos. I have no doubt that tomorrow's broadcast beano from PQ will concentrate on castigating, 'the Great Survivor', Neil Doncaster. His telephone call at 17.01 hrs will not be mentioned, neither will the names, 'Peter', 'Shifty', or, 'Rod McKenzie' be uttered either. Doncaster is rewarded with an annual salary a smidgen under £400,000. His standard of life will be maintained, as long as he continues to telephone Peter. A wee bon mot from 8 years past. As Rangers imploded, and Peter decided we were not worthy of our second place prize money; Peter(again, not on any then SPL Committees) was spotted on a flight to London, sitting side-by-side with Doncaster. Further, he was then photographed beside Neil on the Underground. We assumed correctly, Peter was leading Neil to the headquarters of SKY TV for urgent talks. We asked, why is Peter involved? Being caught on camera gave no wriggle room and later that evening we found out Peter was a member of, 'the SPL TV Rights Committee'. A committee no one had heard of, we asked who else served on this committee? No answer was forthcoming, and we know the committee was never reconvened. Neil might be sacrificed, he might fall on his sword, it depends upon THE necessary posterity. Will Peter offer Neil a posterity like the stars of heaven? We should be told.

Come on guys.. times are hard. Lots to discuss but can we please try keep the thread away from certain bickering at each other. Hot topic, dont make me have to sit and remove pointless posts please. Not aimed at anyone in particular but few angles going on here.. Please refrain

I preferred the old idea that you got a testimonial for ten years of service. There would be precious few testimonials on that basis these days .... but surely that's the point.

Its not just the larger top flight that will look easier on the eye but the proposal is 14-10-10-10. One problem has always been having 4 divisions since the 90s. When you have 24 clubs in each division in England you get away with it but in Scotland 3 divisions at the most is enough. 14 is an awkward amount, If they cant extend it to 16 or 18 then it should either be kept at 12 but then increase the Championship and League one to having much more teams. If gives clubs more to play for when they know they can reach the top flight in 1 or 2 years. But the biggest loop hole is the TV money who want 4 OF games in a season plus all the other sides want 4 home OF games a season as well. The shambolic way this has went about though is the most unprofessional thing in football Ive seen (off the park) but certainly not surprising as they have been incompetent for too long now and Doncaster is obviously just a spokesman.

It is 100% a distraction tactic and can't believe the other clubs are so stupid to fall for this. None of the current premier league teams (except Hearts) will vote for it because it means fewer games against the old firm and therefore less income for them. I don't even think Dundee thought it would go anywhere. I still think Dundee have been offered something else but used this as a distraction from that. What a complete waste of time and effort. I'm so glad we have nothing to do with it. For what it's worth, I think a larger league would be better for the game in the long run but to get it we need clubs to vote for it. They won't and so it's a waste of time even thinking about it.

I don't think that any attempted reconstruction will be valuable or even win approval. Budge, et al, may end up looking very foolish at the end of this.

I got the distinct feeling that Cormack realised instantly that he'd dropped himself right in the shit, Tom English was not for letting it go at all. The voting timeline could prove damning.

Yeah but Cormack can't "unsay" it, it's out there now! You are correct regarding English, said last weekend he smells a story here and he is (to his credit) going after it.

I haven’t listened to sportscene for years but I don’t mind fellows giving me the gist of its ramblings. Obviously listeners have to be stout fellows. I daresay fewer fellows are stouter than our members from The Corps of HM Royal Marines and the Parachute Regiment.

Here is the BBC podcast .... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_scotland_fm

Its getting more Like a Brian Rix farce by the day

Maybe we were better not being represented ? Lesson of today Don´t send anyone to Saturday Sportsound this summer unless he actually knows his stuff and is media trained.

PQ thread on action at PQ goes LIVE ? - Support for Independent Investigation from various (most) - Billy Dodds chucks in a mini grenade with character assanination of Big John (Dundee CEO) !! - Dundee and SPFL have refused to come on programme. The 388K public face of the SPFL is still hiding. - Big Dick (copyright 26th) is doing his best to shield the men who are scared to show face or lift a telephone.....I´ll call instead, I´ll dae it, gonnae, please !! - Michael Stewart (with Tom English and callers for Big Dick in support) go after Rangers because of the "whistleblower evidence" statement. IMO it WAS an OG on our part and left this avenue of attack open. - Stewart in "looking for Blue Sky thinking" shock - Cormack (sheep) says Aberdeen voted No, then quickly changes to Yes - Cormack defends Doncaster. Apparently you cannae just blame the 388K man. - Cormack not happy with timescale given by SPFL to consider resolution but not aware of bullying (later part teed up by fellow sheepie in studio, ie. nice to finish on a positive) - Doncaster called Cormack before vote cast to advise re score on the doors - Cormack gets muddled and fuels more questions than he gives answers - Cormack backs call for Independent Investigation (difficult not to after the confusing pish he came out with just before) - English goes after Doncaster, Big Dick with passionate defence of the invisible man - Doncaster must really love Big Dick - Falkirk chairman Gary Deans..."wasn´t really to do with the money" - Deans is not happy with handling of the whole thing - Deans not bothered about investigation but at same time says Independent aspect apeals (confused), something has to be looked at but now not the time - Deans not happy with Cormack/Doncaster phonecallgate - Deans rips pish out of Dundee/SPFL IT story with joke Independent Investigation gathering support Tom English smells a story starring The Invisible Man and Sheep Big Dick has really uncovered himself today #alternative_transparency ?

That's a horrendous idea. If you start out in these matters by saying what you want to achieve and quantifying the benefits then there's a very real danger someone might actually deliver them by accident.

Amazing how thing go off topic? There have been a few I've been to all for decent players who through no fault of their own had to give up:- Tam Forsyth,Ian durrant and the fundraiser for Fernando Ricksen where it was great to see so many players from his time turn up.

The Ferguson brothers were excellent footballers but as pundits they come with strings attached and they´ll most often go in the direction prompted by whoever is in charge. That is exactly what will happen when Cosgrove speaks with Derek later on. Could you not phone up and verbally viscerate ra bastards in a particularly calm tone ?

As stated, it is predicable. In DrStu's next wheezing breath, he's demanding to hear from Rangers fans. Whatever became of all those compliant notional Rangers fans? Cowan delivers the one-two, "Derek Ferguson is tonight's guest". Bring in another useful idiot. Further, no mention of Lawwell, Shifty McGifty, or Rod McKenzie. Today's favourite was DrStu' welcoming Dundee United back into the SPFL Premiership, "a club at the very heart of Scottish football fabric". Given the emphasis on Dundee FC this week, you would think Jum Spence would be the very guy to explain the dynamic? Nah, the caravan moves on, and the only dogs barking are H-u-ns, and they don't count.

Off the ball preparing the ground, as expected. Cosgrove..."whit do Rangers want oot o this?"..."what are they getting so angry about?"....in the usual dismissive tone. I think they call that misleading by omission. edit Just to add, I´m paraphrasing what Cosgrove said.

Have you ever come across a name in something and say to yourself we had a player by that name well I heard one today Jotn Sorenson played for us as an inside forward in the late sixties there must be a load we bought that never set the grass on fire .

So in other words we are doing nothing as usual and have been shafted once again

Brubeck? Blue Rondo perhaps.

What´s your style Compo ? Amadeus, Elton John or Chas & Dave

So the buck gets passed and the coverup is complete.

Last weeks programme was where and when things really kicked off. At the moment, it´s the single biggest influence regards the current narrative. Narrative for what Rangers are doing at the moment is crucial. The SPFL won´t be waiting to see what happens on Sportsound, they´ll be looking to control the message as best they can. Last weeks programme was where and when things really kicked off. ps. I don´t want to de-rail this thread, any further disagreement, point or whatever please use the SPFL thread where I´ve posted the same,...thank´s !