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Clearly last night's exclusive from The Times is a very big story, even if there's not much meat to the bones at this stage. Because of the figures HMRC claimed (and disputed at the creditor's meeting), they were able to force the oldco into liquidation as the biggest creditor. All along, credible people involved have questioned the whole process and what was claimed by HMRC but what is fairly clear is that: Murray was arguably forced into selling by LBG due to the fear of any potential bill. Whyte arguably stopped paying PAYE because of same and likelihood of admin. HMRC refused a CVA because of their claim. HMRC have spent millions pursuing this claim. Scores of people lost their jobs. Since admin Rangers has lost potentially hundreds of millions of pounds as Celtic had free rein to reign. I'd like to ask for some sort of enquiry but the evidence would be lost anyway.

1. The football debts that newco paid were voluntary. They weren't legally due to pay them. 2. Oldco went into administration due to Whyte not paying the PAYE as much as anything else. 3. Our financial position under Whyte meant we couldn't meet the EBT tax charge without the penalties, so at that point, did the additional penalties make that much difference? We can point back to that being the reason for Murray selling to Whyte but Murray wanted to sell his shares anyway and may have done so without the penalties. Nobody can prove anything one way or another. Trying to trace the eventual outcome of administration back to the penalties is legally tenuous and legally remote and it's unlikely anyone would be successful in legal action. Even if there was, would Craig Whyte not be the major shareholder and therefore beneficiary? We may all want to lash out and blame someone but there's no proof that anyone acted illegally or through bad faith, even though we all have our suspicions. What is does prove is that HMRC are confirming that there was no fraudulent or negligent behaviour by the club and HMRC have put that in writing, and it blows up the claims that we "cheated" one and for all. Things are going well for the club. Let's not get distracted by this sideshow which has no relevance to the club right now.

This Saturday at Ibrox, Rangers under 21s take on National League club, Wrexham in the quarter-finals of the Tunnock's Caramel Wafer Challenge Cup. Tickets are currently on sale, and I believe a pay at the gate option will be available on the day? Of course, the huge incentive to all attending, is a free Tunnock's Caramel Wafer at the gate. Welsh opposition for Rangers are hens' teeth, I can think of only one match against Swansea for a testimonial in my life time? Others may have keener memories, or better knowledge of the club's history? Rangers Colts have already completed four rounds of the trophy, defeating Berwick Rangers, Stranraer, Ballymena United, and Solihull Moors. It's become a cosmopolitan affair since Rangers senior team defeated Peterhead 4-zip in a sell out Hampden final in 2016. Both sides of the Irish border offer a few clubs, English National League clubs, and Cymru Premiers sides; all join Scots teams from the lower three SPFL leagues. Rangers Colts have already journeyed the British Isles, meeting two English, one Northern Irish, and a fellow Scots eleven. Wrexham are a side with a rich history, founded in 1864, eight years older than the Light Blues. They have played their entire time at the Racecourse Ground. Go back thirty years and Wrexham FC were a second tier English League Club, currently they languish fourth bottom of England's fifth tier. Their form is a long way from achieving the quarter-finals of the European Cup Winners Cup in '75-76, losing narrowly 1-2 to Anderlecht. They have lost their last three league games. The northern Welsh club have turned the corner in club ownership and administration, their owners these last three years are the Wrexham Supporters Trust. The welsh team are mainly English in their compliment of players, you have to go to their youth squad before finding a plethora of Welsh players. Included is Christian Dibble, son of Rangers nine-in-a-row Goalie, Andy 'Officer' Dibble. I noted their last round victory over St Mirren Colts, they included three/four players of their youth compliment. I do not know if that will be the case on Saturday, but you have got to think their place in the National League is the priority, they are two points above automatic relegation into the National League North. Of course, our Colts are a grouping of square jawed, chiseled cheek boned, and wizened browed fleet of foot athletes. Oh, there's also Eros Grezda. The better, or rather better known Colts are Kai Kennedy, Barjonas, Ciaran Dickson, Dapo Mebude, .... etc. Play up the Light and Speedy Blues. Really, I wish the club woulkd revert to the old name for our up and coming, 'the Swifts'. Really, a victory for the Colts would not only mean a semi-final place, but cause deep concern in the PQ Gang Hut. All the usual suspects ie DrStu', Big Dick, Tom English, Michael Stewart, Allan Preston, ..... etc have taken every opportunity to deride the competition since it became cosmopolitan. They hate the idea that a non Scots club might win the trophy. Further, they have been heavily critical of the Colts entry too, Motherwell's under 21s reached the semis last season and they ignored the achievement. The very nature of the tie, Rangers versus the last non Scots club, Wrexham - who do you think the Gang Hut are cheering on to victory? Remember, Rangers are the wrong type of Scots. Do you think the anchor(with a silent 'w'), of Sportsound, Big Dick will comment on Rangers under 21s versus Wrexham(with a silent 'w') on Sportsound? Oh, the tension!

The question now needs to be asked whether individuals within HMRC deliberately got the tax amount wrong for oldco. And also if there were outside influences at work. I’m no accountant or tax expert but I simply do not believe this was an unfortunate error

Probably, although I 'm not going back to check. There's been too much emotional baggage on this over the years and I don't want to get dragged back into it.

Mr John Reid springs to mind in all of this.

I am inconsolable with the feeling of let down, Phil McFournames should have told us all about this fcuk-up by HMRC several weeks past. Phil has contacts everywhere.

Sorry but no apology after seeing a flare being lit and hurled in the semi-final and thrown forcibly towards the pitch(after Rangers scored),coming to rest against the seat of a photographer.This came centrally from the section where the Union bears were waving their flag so if that is not the action of a "ned" then I will retract my statement. Luckily the photographer appeared to be uninjured. Also whilst watching the Ross County when Rangers scored again a flare was lit,caught briefly on camera and the "ned" realising he might be identified quickly lowered his head. I could use more profanely harsher words but would be censored.

The threat of millions of pounds litigation & horror stories had been going on since 2008 No one was touching us Pressure on the bank etc It’s ok saying that HMRC were owed just £68m, the point is that Huge parts of that debt was caused by Whyte etc - the Phantom bill was a catalyst for everything that happened to us indirectly or directly That’s my point Had it been administered properly then there’s a chance SDMs £10m settlement offer may have been accepted etc It’s a debate on Ifs & Buts, there’s certainly no doubt in my mind we were hamstrung because of it

OK - it seems more information is starting to leak out (including possible letters to former players) and HMRC's claim may indeed be reduced to circa £20m as 'The Times' has noted overnight. IF that's correct (and it remains a big if right now) and the HMRC claim is reduced to £20m then the oldco would still have had a debt of at least £40m in 2011 (i.e. the time of the sale to Whyte). That's a lot but would have been manageable for sure and was certainly a better situation than what arose from admin. However, we arguably still would have been owned by Whyte. With that in mind, it's important to note, because of the BTC (and the financial crash of that period), Murray/LBG wanted a sale asap no matter if it was £20m claim, £94m claim or even if Murray had managed to settle (which looks like what should have happened). Ultimately the sale to Whyte took place before full info of what HMRC wanted was known (publicly at least) - partly because we were still insisting EBT's weren't subject to tax. Nevertheless, questions remain over HMRC timelines and actions. At what point did they know how much they'd be claiming? Why did they get their sums so wrong? Who was responsible? Should a CVA have been agreed? And, of course, the £68.3m question, could/should they have come to a settlement before 2011, making the club more attractive to other interested parties, perhaps avoiding a sale to Whyte? Lots of questions then and very few answers. In fact, I doubt we'll ever get answers and the best outcome will be an increased dividend for creditors of the oldco. All things considered the motivation of many parties is difficult to outline from MIH to LBG to HMRC to Whyte to Green to other clubs to the SFA to the media and to the politicians. What is for sure, an institution fell apart because of their actions and the genuine people that did lose out - from shareholders to creditors to fans, are the victims and that should never be forgotten when it comes to asking for contrition.

This forum is becoming a divorcee collective.

Today on the Media Review forty-five minutes, DrStu' ended with a critique on the BBC. He stated the part of the UK with the fewest paying the License Fee per head of population, was Scotland. Of course, DrStu' blamed the non payment on those involved in the Scottish independence movement NOT receiving the self confident BBC they deserve. RANK HYPOCRISY from the worst offender in spending a decade referring to Rangers and Rangers supporters as, 'H-u-ns' on his co-hosted show, 'Off the Ball'. What other grouping are both marginalised and demonised in such a way?

I was in the section next to it MacK, that is where it came from. Not surprising to class them as NEDs when their using fireworks as objects to throw at people. Crazy and dangerous stuff?

I highly doubt it was just one person who was responsible for all of this within HMRC. Ive always believed that there was a high level yahoo mission both within HMRC and LBG with the aim of financially destroying Rangers. We can only hope today’s news will lead to some sort of internal investigation within HMRC to allow us to get to the truth of what really went on.

You may be right in terms of financial redress but not in terms of reputation. I feel it’s essential we do everything we can to use these revelations to reverse the negative image our club has rightly or wrongly acquired.

They say history is written by the victors. As far as I'm concerned there was a concerted effort to kill us off and it failed. This history isn't over yet!

Chris McLaughlin always has his tongue on the tip of a 'cock-up'.

I'd also add that even if they did find any of the others responsible, I don't have any confidence they'd be found guilty in today's Scotland, under the current regime.

I doubt he knew that it would be found taxable. There was just a risk and he offered a percentage of it to make it go away. A common approach, as I'm sure you know.

At centre half I don't think speed on the ground is to important. Its speed of thought positioning and being a good reader of situations anyway Helander and Goldson have gelled well .

The SNP and Labour have done well in elections over the years despite being anti-Rangers, so there's no real incentive for anyone to call for it.?

I don't think that would be a good move for Alfie. He'd just be a back-up to Vardy. He needs to move somewhere where he'd be first choice.

OK, ...then it would come down to the numbers wrt the different parts of the total HMRC claim. ie. was quantum big enough (25%) to block CVA . It was clear what the HMRC wanted out of this (precedent re. EBT's) and they kept at it for years. Whilst an individual may have leaked documents at certain times, I don't buy the rumours re. HMRC and dark deeds. However, I was always more inclined to entertain a conspiracy from other angles within the saga but the bastards have got away with it.

Maybe one day, just maybe, they'll do us the service of having a Rangers supporter present and discuss our news. They've had a rare old time at our expense and they've got (are getting) away scot free.

The initial demand was issued in 2009 and as the demands are being revised downwards, I don't think time limitations would apply. I doubt that they could increase them at this stage (other than perhaps charge more interest). I reckon there's not any proof. There's too many internet rumours floating around to know what's real and what's not.

The inference was clear enough. Please don't name individuals.

I never blamed him for anything. I just said his name springs to mind.

While the amended tax bill is oldco Rangers are still currently suffering the massive consequences of this apparent blunder. Just as one example we wouldn't have the ongoing situation of Ashley robbing us blind if not for this incompetence and he's the least of it. We will never know how many trophies it has cost the club and the financial losses are likely even more incalculable.

Every rangers fan and former shareholder may be able to raise a class action suit here. Emotional distress and loss of shares respectively. Dave king might be about to get a huge amount if cash. The rst? This could go on for years.

I wish! I even took my wife to Australia and returned alone. She came back like a homing pigeon.?

Sorry to hear that guy's and wish you all the best. PS. Can you send me the recipe.?

I'm planning to go along to the game. Hopefully there is pay at the gate.

Not that it will be news to anyone, but Tom Oirish has been on his twitter feed deliberately misrepresenting the claims made in The Times article. He thinks he is untouchable. Just waiting on Derek Ferguson or Kris Boyd or anyone else taking him to task on their next conflab show. Oops. I'll probably have fingernails longer than Howard Hughes by the time that ever comes to pass...

I guess what I was trying to explain was that; the mounting evidence makes it almost impossible for anyone to argue it wasn’t orchestrated.

No bloody luck in spite of attending all run of mill games there no doubt loads of union neds will get them.

It always did appear to be orchestrated. None of that is news. If you're just reaching that conclusion then that's fine. Some of us have been living with that realisation for many years. Rangersrab, for example, has been calling out certain politicians, bankers and others for years. I've been through it all. I just don't feel like wasting more mental anguish on it. The time for establishing those guilty of it was earlier this decade. In my totally uninformed opinion, if it hasn't happened by now, it's not going to happen. They even managed to (deliberately?) cock up the trials of Whyte and D&P. It's now part of the Rangers story and there's little or nothing we can do to change it.

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this mate, from memory, didn't Murray contest a) that there was tax due on the EBT's and b) at the same time make an initial £9mil offer to HMRC with a further £10mil payable over a number of years? From my perspective it seems fairly obvious that he knew it would eventually be found to be taxable but that the HMRC figure was outlandish and when you look at the numbers involved £47 paid into EBT's the figure Murray had isnt a kick in the arse off what was actually owed before HMRC 'sexed it up'!

Perhaps the national broadcaster, and its staff, hope, possibly against hope, that the whole farrago can, and will, be explained by the doctrine of the honest mistake. The staff, of course, will be unlikely to wager any part of their over generous salaries on this Proposition.

BBC Scotland have recently moved to 'careful hate' approach on matters Rangers. The reason is they detest having to make official apologies to both club and supporters each year. PQ's own website now includes a three sentence paragraph on the proposed £50 million reduction to the tax bill. It is under the headline, 'Rumour' and includes other Scottish football rumours including John Kennedy's proposed movement to Hibs as their next manager. BBC Scotland have reported it and their perception is their sin is clean. They have NOT mentioned it on their broadcast means ie radio and TV news. Meanwhile, the item headlines newspapers and STV lunch time news(including a vox-pop) and various independent radio stations. Further, I noted a few weeks past, Ticketus lowered their claim from £33 million to £11 million. The ramifications in the long term remain unclear to me, but their appears to be a rationalisation. I suspect you would have to be a regular in the Squirrel Bar or the Admiral Bar to know why PQ are overwhelmingly ignoring an increasing change in direction?

The demand has reduced from £92m to £68m. Still terminal. I don't think that the story is as big as many in our support think it is. The Times has some speculation that it could be reduced further from £68m to £20m, but that's all it is at the moment. It's just speculation from unnamed sources. If it was the Sun or Record that was doing the speculation in this manner, we'd be laughing it out of the water.

Given how strange the law system in Britain / Scotland deals and dealt with our case (be it admin / HMRC / Whyte or Sports Direct), you would have hope that this would be done in the US. There sure would be lawyers about chasing HMRC et al from pillar to post for damages new and old.

The tweet has since been removed so information may be wrong.

Are you happily married, buster? How did Jeremy Corbyn's first marriage go? The prison, the general area or the park (I'm not really up to speed on any)? Does a spell away from the forum mean the poster has been imprisoned? Interesting... Doubt I'll get a ticket for the Cup Final. Can't say I'm looking forward to it, unfortunately. We desperately need a trophy, a big win at Hampden and to stop those yahoos winning everything.

The story has always been out there who was behind all of this.

That is incredible. Swope Park Rangers finished rock bottom in the Eastern Conference in the 2nd tier in the US last season. He was a very talented player despite his slight frame so I'm shocked he's sunk that low.

James MaClean will be more remembered for refusing to wear a poppy on his shirt than he will be remembered as a footballer in years to come. Why does this piece of pond life always need to be given publicity every Remembrance Sunday ? Ignore him ??????