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It shows how splintered as a support we are. We like to think of ourselves as being better than THEM... yet when it comes to being political or getting a message across, they know how to ignore their differences and portray a united front... we, on the other hand, are the complete opposite - so splintered you would need a doctor to remove the wood from our arses. VB work very hard at getting the message across about the lack of balance, they do a fine job. It isn't for some, and that's fair enough - but on this particular topic, so long as it is done in a respectful manner, it can do no harm - why we wouldn't ALL be behind the concept is beyond me - especially as we ALL have the exact same complaints.

Nonsense. Those who continue to sing the songs are the ones doing Lawwell's bidding. You only need look at how Celtic kept their head below the parapet last week as soon as Clarke piped up. If Rangers fans don't sing at Clarke, the spotlight could rightly be focused on Celtic. And before you say "But nobody has hauled them up over it" - that's the point. If we don't sing our choice words then the focus COULD be shone on them - the fact we shoot ourselves in the foot means we will always highlight ourselves - it is completely self-defeating.

Helter Skelter. Spirits in the PQ Gang Hut were running high on Thursday evening, the usual two Irish guys and an Aussie were proclaiming Sellik for carrying the Scottish standard in Europe. Sectarianism was hosed down for a time, it's all Rangers and Rangers supporters' fault. After a one nil victory for Valencia(3-zip on aggregate), the Scottish standard was lowered and Steve Clarke was lionised. The Killie manager is clearly at the end of his emotional tether, Big Dick thinks Stevie's thanking Chelsea for taking him away from the west of Scotland, was quite the saddest thing he has heard. We were reminded that Scotland is a great country and the blight that is sectarianism must be eradicated. The two Irish guys, the Aussie, Big Dick, Liam McLeod, .... et al did not mention, let alone discuss the sectarianism and coins aimed at Kris Boyd. Further, the antics of several thousand Yahoos running amok in south east Spain were not up for discussion either. A Rangers theme pub in Benidorm being set ablaze, the other two being locked and guarded by the Guardia Civil, numerous running battles, six arrests, .... etc was filed under, 'Effigies'. This approach, known as doing a Humza Yousaf, allows the Gang Hut to ignore awkward and inconvenient events that run contrary to the pervading narrative. It's the way ahead for new, modern Scotland. Saturday morning had Shereen Nanjiani's show with Angela Haggerty as one of three guests. Sectarianism was on the menu again, Angela revealed her Irish catholic roots, her parents stories were a lament of discrimination, and she co-founded 'Call it Out' with Jeanette Findlay after a priest was attacked at St Alophonsus church. Angela ignored Kris Boyd's experience and Spanish affairs do not progress the narrative. Off the Ball followed Angela's objective views, DrStu' is backing Michael Stewart's call for strict liability. Oh, and whataboutery should be banned because it's unhelpful. He told us the concept of no whataboutery derives from the Slugger O'Toole website. Sections of society must take ownership and responsibility for their failings, whataboutery runs interference on progress. He gave an example of Jim White wearing an orange marching band uniform. I would have thought something that occurred thirty-odd years past could have been trumped by the petrol bombing of a Rangers bar in Benidorm a few days previously? However, that is whataboutery and well, who takes ownership for that, if we are not allowed to run interference on the narrative? This new modern Scotland will be a mine field. I mean, can we mention a current BBC Scotland show Host being exposed as shouting, 'can you spot a handsome h-u-n' at Queen Street station? How about the same Host labeling Rangers supporters, 'H-u-ns and typical orange wankers'? Or, the same Host as a columnist in the Daily Record claiming Rangers supporters ransacked Barcelona's cathedral in 1972? All these examples are more relevant than Jim White's choice of evening wear, but conveniently absolve DrStu' of being a perpetrator in the issue because whataboutery bans the raising of such questions, even though from a Rangers supporters' point of view, they are most germane to the case. The stick has been created, now DrStu' wants a creative input in fashioning the weapon. It will be honed to batter Rangers and Rangers supporters. DrStu' likes control, he ridicules Jim Traynor's return to national TV. We find out the nine seconds of TV exposure was condensed from a 25 minute interview. DrStu' celebrates Traynor's heavily edited appearance because the presentation complies with BBC Scotland's narrative. The other 24 minutes and 51 seconds of the interview lie on a PQ floor, and that is the cause of triumph and ridicule with someone constantly demanding both clarity and transparency. Control is heady, and it leads DrStu' into increasingly regular auditions to be Master of the Universe. In the wake of Peter Tork's death, he posed a quiz question as to which notorious character had been penciled in to be the fifth Monkee? Two hours of no one providing the 'correct' answer, DrStu' reveals the name, Charles Manson. Everyone knows the the obsessive murdering control freak(Charles, not DrStu') brought nasal harmony to the Beach Boys. The second half of Off the Ball began with an apology, Manson was not up for Monkee selection, because he was in the jail. Hey, hey, we're the flunkees, BBC Scotland's continued approach to sectarianism!

Let's not go down the road of arguing between each other. If you don't want to go then fine, but I doubt the rest of us care too much about your reasons why. VB may or may not be organising it but I'd hope the protest will have a lot of backing and I know I'll try to attend again. The last one or two I went to were fairly well organised and there was no objectionable behaviour that I recall.

Strict liability is similar to the OBFA in my view. It will be pushed by those who assume it will not affect them. Then when it does affect them, they will go mental and claim it was someone else's fault. As we can see with UEFA's strict liability scheme, it appears to be merely a joke with paltry fines year after year for poor behaviour. At the end of the day, society needs to stop blaming football for its problems just because football stadia are a visible medium for elements of its ills. Far more people suffer from racism, homophobia or other forms of discrimination which the stats prove year on year. But that narrative doesn't suit the agenda of those who's careers depend upon the outrage they themselves fuel.

There seems to be a sad and widespread misunderstanding on here of Vanguardbears and the efforts they have made over recent years but that's no excuse for the active attempts to belittle and undermine their activities when directed at the likes of the BBC. Frankly, it shows a level of prejudice and ignorance that the Green Brigade would be proud of.

By singing these songs, we make it easy for our detractors to come after us, and we make the neutral (in the UK press for example) unsympahetic towards us and less likley to see our side of things on the wider issue. We also create awkward moments in the press room for SG, and our supporters' bodies and board have to issue public apologies. If we stay on the right side of the rules and the law our detractors will be forced to use contrived ways to come after us, which will be obvious to the neutral observer and will win us support on the wider issue. Whether we agree with it or not, the weight of public opinion condemns the use of derogatory terms for a person based on their religion. I've always argued that f***** refers to someone of a particular political opinion, but that doesn't hold water in the case of Clarke. What definition of the word f***** were the section of the support who sang at Clarke using?

It is clear from whom the songs come and you seem quick to defend them and I don't know why because they cause embarrassment to the club,and could potentially cause sanctions in the way our club is demonised, so stop the defence.

Is Bearger not just asking about the details involved with the petition? If the details are vague, surely it's only common sense to ask questions prior to making a decision to support it?

Not interested in a demo but very interested in a petition. Both are looking to protect Rangers' interests but only one involves the SNP. Not a surprise why he's doing his utmost to discredit the petition. SNP before Rangers yet again.

Agreed. The VBs have been championing the issue of the BBC for well over a decade, before many others felt there were problems. There may be areas where some of us may disagree with the VBs on, but they're the ones who have got off their backsides to organise this and deserve our full support on an issue that we surely all agree on.

I would suggest it's the people singing these songs that are the ones doing Lawwell's bidding. The fact that our manager has to comment about this again is embarrassing. Just stop singing these songs for goodness sake.

I think it is possible to agree that we are treated differently but also to think that we should avoid certain songs. Lawwell will definitely prefer us to continue singing these songs. It's not like we have a shortage of other things that we could sing about.

Neil McCann is a true Rangers. I loved him as a player, and I respect the man.

Your trolling to deflect and belittle something that, by your own admission, you have no interest in? Clearly that’s inaccurate and evidenced by you still commenting on it? Save your energy BG?

He’s trying to prove he doesn’t put it the SNP before Rangers. A bit late for that though.

The SNP, Sinn Fein and Celtic FC all chip in 33.3%.

I think SL is a dangerous way to go. Boyd was right when he said idiots could get in and throw/chant/invade playing area. These idiots being opposing fans intent of having points docked. This would definitely happen in nuthouse Scotland.

I had no idea who this lad was - he played and scored for Swansea the other week and McBurnie tweeted him a "well done" message - and he replied to McBurnie with "Thanks mate, WATP" - loved it !

They should have had a penalty. It was dangerous from Worrall. But the game was done by that point - a fact even Chris Sutton highlighted. I know Kevin Thomson is my bestie and all... but on co-comms yesterday he commented on how he knows Steven Davis really well - the other commentator says "you know him so well that you didn't even know he was on the bench today". KT comes back and says "I work in the Academy, not the first team. And even if I did know the starting line-up I wouldn't be telling anybody anyway". Guy oozes class.

There have been protests like this before, by Rangers fans and other groups (the SNP, pro-Brexit supporters, anti-Brexit..) in even greater numbers. They get very little publicity, and possibly even harm their own cause as it makes them look like nutcases. A few years ago I’d have went on this, but now I feel it would be pointless at best, and possibly even counter productive. Good luck to those who do go though.

It's pathetic but if it's really what you base your views on then I'm sure no one will miss you.

Bang on the money there. Some seem to think we need to get the world to change, public opinion on that stuff isn’t going to change so it’s a waste of time to argue that it somehow needs to. Then your point on Clarke just proves the point that even if people understand the word as political it is clearly used purely in reference to religious heritage sometimes.

He pulls players out of position for others to exploit - he is also direct and takes defence into attack very quickly. He also often finds himself being marked by 2 players which means a team-mate should have space - he may mot get credited with an assist but he is an integral part of our attacking threat. As you say, not the full story

That interview is reasonable and he comes across as a rational and decent bloke, who has made his comments in the cold light of day - unlike Clark, who resembles a kid throwing his toys out of the pram after a heavy defeat. I wonder if Tom English, Graeme Spiers or Bill Leckie will have much to say about it.

Might I suggest that mocking people, who are taking issue with a public official who clearly has an agenda against Rangers (and all that comes with it/us) chairing a committee on sectarianism, is bigoted. Next we'll have St Pats doing primary school lessons on child abuse and Mike Ashley chairing an income and ethics group, with Rupert Maxwell as an honorary mascot.

The author of the petition has belittled nothing in the eyes of those who support his intentions. Step forward those of you who are error-free, just a little !!

I've never attended a demonstration for anything else but this is something I'm bothered enough about to act upon. What concerns me is that I'm seen with people in balaclavas, or banners that have messages about other stuff. I'm just looking to you guys for insights based on your experience. If I have confidence that this is a focused and peaceful demo, I'll go. Anyone know if this is likely?

Dornan is part of the "Combatting Sectarianism In Scottish Society" (AKA Combatting Rangers Supporters in Scottish Society) group. Google searches seem difficult for folk who are quick to laugh at Rangers supporters.

Now approaching 900.

Well it is only my guess, you have already said you are not interested in this so what is it you are trying to prove?

Scores far more.?

Jamie Murphy ?

Calm down I just misunderstood you because we had been talking about assists. We don't that know for sure, they probably don't themselves until the transfer window comes and they see what options are out there. Whether I would be disappointed or not would depend on how much of our budget we spent on him and partially how Grezda does for the rest of the season. With Murphy returning too it's probably not an area of the team I'd want to throw a few million at.

The statement states "the Board is satisfied that the results for the full year will be good, with the Club forecasting to be close to break-even for EBITDA for the year." So it's break-even before player amortisation, which will likely be around £6m for the year, so we could be looking at a loss in excess of £6m for the full year.

I think we need to beat Celtic home and away for that - which is not impossible - but unlikely. The league is theirs to lose, but if we can continue playing as we did yesterday we will be setting ourselves up very nicely for next season. 3 players that started yesterday were loanees (Defoe, Worrall & Kent) - we should have Defoe for another season and Worrall would be easily enough replaced IMO - though he was comfortable again yesterday. Kent would, IMO, be difficult to replace but that still gives us a solid nucleus of a squad to compete next year.

Although that's before we account for the purchase of players, which is a major outflow.

What about the set up for Arfields' 1st strike before he scored??, Kent was involved in everything going forward until he went off

Of course it could. Clean up your own house and then when they simply cannot control their own songbook you subtly place comment in the media. One thing is for sure - we continue with our own songbook and it will never be shone on them - and only partially to do with their media placemen, but just as much, if not moreso, because we don't know how to box clever.

Whatever this young man's future might hold, I thank him for such a public expression of support for our club. Too many shrink from admitting allegiance to Rangers, so it's nice when someone does.

Read quite a bit of people saying it is not about "whattaboutery" and we shoudl stop our songs first etc.. Gernerally, we don't need TBB or FTP in this day and age, so could just as easily stop singing that. Yet, e.g. over here in Germany we take great pains to remove plastic bags and plastic bottles now, saving the oceans, Earth and all that. And we will close down coal mines and coal-powerplants (well, up till 2038 ... since no government wants to tackle the 10s of thousands of jobs that will go with that these days). All fair and well. And then you look at countries around us, not to speak world-wide, 50odd of which are currently building coal-power-plants and a dozen or so nuclear power plants. Seperating waste (plastic, bio et al) is an interesting thought for many, but let others do that first. So while we may feel good about doing our best - and rightly so - you do wonder whether that effort is actually worthwhile, if others don`t follow suit?! When it comes to these songs and calls from certain corners to adress that, shouldn`t there be a concerted but likewise reasonable effort being taken? What we see is grenade after grenade lobbed our way, with cries of "sectarianism" being flung about. And you wonder whether those doing it have actually read the definition of the word ... and that it isn't a one-way street either. Furthermore, people doing it should take a step back and look on what they are actually deciding here. These are not public rallies, strikes or call-to-arms. It reaches from football banter (cynical as it may be at times) up to orchestrated political, sectarian and/or bigotted campaigning. There is a rather goo book about football songs out there, "Dicks out 2 - You're not singing anymore?" by Rob Merrills, written in 1997. In there he noted that the Old Firm rivalry has a quite serious approach on certain matters, one you may only encounter again in Northern ireland. Likewise, he also states that the term "mcrocosmos" might be appropriate for Scotland too, given the structure of the game (and, may I add, journalism). When it comes to the Old Firm and us, he makes an indipendent observation, one which clearly shows why we are gettin all the bother with certain sections of the media and politicians: For a book which is largely supposed to illustrate the degree of wit and good humour with which the game is viewed from the terraces, it is a bit of a shock to enter the world of Glasgow`s Old Firm rivalry and, in particular, to look at the songs which illuminate Ibrox Park, home of Rangers. The songs from Celtic are passionate and narrow minded, sure, but the vast majority of them are songs of support for the club or traditions anthems brought over from Ireland (as is the case with some of the Rangers songs) that are supposed to lift the spirits, even if they are almost exclusively about deeds of Irish Republican heroes that the supporters of other clubs would regard as no more than criminals. There are epic songs about the illustrious history of the club and its players, but at Ibrox, the whole thing takes on a far darker aspect. Hatred, pure and simple, is what a great many Rangers songs are all about. There is a hatred for Celtic on a national basis - an essentially Irish club that came to dominate the game in Scotland, there is hatred for the supporters - the immigrant workers who crossed the Irish Sea and poured into Glasgow, there is hatred for the religion and belief that those supporters hold dear and there is hatred toward the team itself - the only other outfit which has consistently been able to challenge Rangers' supremacy over the years. And, of course, there is a hatred borne out of the Northern Ireland situation, which has really come from the common detestation of the people of the Irish Republic which is shared by Rangers supporters and Protestants in Ulster in spite of there being a lack of the sort of personal involvement which is evident at Parkhead. ... I was born under a Union Jack I was born under a Union Jack Do you know where hell is? Hell is in The Falls, Heaven is in the Shankill Road And we'll guard Old Derry's Walls. So, I was born under a Union Jack, I was born under a Union Jack, Chapels were made for burning, Catholics go to hell, Proddies go to heaven And it's just as fucking well. I was born under a Union Jack A Union, Union Jack. ... and there is obviously also Derry's Walls, TBB, No Pope of Rome, "I married a F'enian, her name was McGuire", Heroes of the UVF et al. Rob Merrills, Dicks out 2, p. 279f Dicks Out 2 - You're Not Singing Any More?: Unique Guide to British Football Songs https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dicks-Out-Singing-British-Football/dp/0952661039/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1551092223&sr=1-2&keywords=Rob+Merrills ... and how do you argue for this? Well, obviously, that was in the late 90s and over the years, I would say that much of the "hatred" at games et al - apart from the hardcore folk which every club has - has toned down and became rather moderate, reserved for certain games only. Likewise, it has to be said that some of these songs also share that same level of "feeling togetherness" that other songs sung at football matches have, like Liverpool's "You`ll never walk alone". And many people wouldn`t think about a trip to Ulster when belting out Derry's Walls. Same as hardly any Frenchman has blood in his mind when airing their national anthem. The great problem we have is that our songs and pro-British stance have been taken out of the football context and being instrumentalized by both our enemies beyond the Clyde, as well as quite a few people of public and olitical importance, who may actually have no real interest in the game as such, but use us to further their agenda and standing in the public. Unless we sort the perception and understanding of our songs out, but likewise tackle agenda-driven campaigning, we fight a lost cause. And here it comes to whataboutery too. You can't have us being demonized as sectarian and bigotted over songs that hardly carry a viable and active meaning for about 95 % who sing them on the one hand. While on the other, people who go down an outright anti-British and anti-Protestant route receive a soft-soft or non-attention whatsoever. There are no suppressed masses ior minorities n Scotland that need to be freed or liberated ... a topic where all big parties shy away from ... while campaigners like Docherty et al get a free reign in the press. But there is a clear legislation against the support of terrorism (in songs as well as deeds) at hand, that seemingly does not count in Scotland ... which is still a part of Britain? So if there is no open and even-handed debate in Scotland, go a step further and utilize the British Government ... ministries, not MPs embroiled in that mad Brexit stuff. But whatever you (I'm no Briton, so can`t say "we") do, start to do it on the front-foot. For years, we (if at all) have been reactive ... and most wailing happened on football boards, while the enemy e.g. utilized the media machine to perfection.

This feels like the type of occasion where fan groups should be getting behind each other. For the common good.

That's the reward he gets for speaking out.

This is good. And welcome. It should be a regular feature. Surely Rangers, the club, has the clout to have this picked up by a rival (or just fair) broadcaster? To sit and go through all of the incidents. And then the next step. Discuss the why this is happening and being allowed to happen?

Bye, bye.

Organised by VB, I’m out. Active Restistance to TV license We’ve been getting lots of messages about how to deal with visiting goons so here’s how to deal with them on doorstep the visiting bullies have no right to enter your home. they must leave when asked. you do not have to tell them anything. and dont call them either. the golden rule is no contact no contract. heres how to handle the visits. when they call out they will try to get you to confirm your name or wether you live in the house. do NOT CONFIRM this. ask the stranger to to identify themselves. if they dont close your door immediately. even call the police. if they do identify themselves the ONLY thing you say to them is this "I do not want to buy anything from you today. I do NOT watch live broadcasts" then close your door immediately. This prevents them from getting evidence or an admission of guilt from you. and its 100% legal. the onus rests on them to prove you need one, not up to you to tell them. Always remember these will never identify themselves until you ask, so never answer any questions